Cutting a notch to the heart of a tree

[Froggy]

I've been tought that when you make you notch you generally take 1/3 of the total diameter of tree. the other day a Buddy of mine told me when you make a notch you should take the heart out of the tree. That will prevent the tree from busting and you will have more control of the tree when making your back cut. What's ya'll's thoughts on this? Thanks, BB

 

[MasterBlaster]

JB refers to this, but he calls it 'undermining the center of gravity'. Taking out the heart is in effect doing that. But I'm not sure your buddy realizes what he's doing - I dunno.

Its a cool technique when you get the chance/need to use it.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

In my view, the length across the hinge is usually more determinant of success; that is the thing to watch. If in the pattern of a particular stump that stops you at middle, or before (to leave the widest part for hinge).

Stumper's point is that this torques less fiber making thinner /longer hinge; rather than shorter/fatter.

Assuming, a tree's lean; anywhere but straight towards target; so the job is to support against the pull of the lean; while gently allowing the pull towards target. Felling, rigging, free falling, lifting; just watching and determing by these few factors.

i like to point to the ability of the longer hinge to control sidelean; via longer 'wrench' from pivot under lean, to pulling fiber on opposite side gives more leverage to control the imbalance(all must be contained in the length of the hinge). The size of the pivot area of the fiber will be about the same space in hinge; the rest of the length acropss giving increased leverage.


Giving up some of that reach/leverage across to move hinge back further; might be done to undermine the C.o.B. when the C.o.B. is over the stump or close to. This would make it be more sure the C.o.B. fell into the face.


This strategy (moving hinge back)would also be considered on backleaners; to give less angle of lean (determined by C.o.B. to pivot area of hinge slant) away from the target. Otherwise if fair C.o.B. forward; i would watch more of the length of the hinge, more than depth in.

The compressed pivot area of the hinge relationship to the C.o.B. is the full determinate i think.

You'd like to initiate with the pivot (area of hinge)allowing as much lean towards target as possible; while trying to minimize side lean angle (as determined by C.o.B. to pivot area of hinge slant)

As likewise the pull of the hinge fibers support lessening gradually towrds target; while maintaining as much leverage against side lean as possible (as determined by length of hinge reach from pivot)

Conversely Dent reports that a hard forward leaner; would get a shallow face. i think this is correct, and with these theories in that the side lean would be minimized in hard forward lean(therefore less need for long hinge) and the higne pivot further back would essentially give more lean (as determined by C.o.B. to pivot area of hinge slant), when that is what you would be trying to give less of (lean); so it proves out IMLHO even in this 'reverse scenario'.

The lean gives leverage, adjusitng the pivot position adjsutsts that; the other way to adjsut leverage is by the length of the leverage (as determined by C.o.B. to pivot area of hinge distance)


Orrrrrrrr somethin'like that!
:alien:

 

[MasterBlaster]

Whose got the Cliff's Notes on that one?

 

[Husky372]

notch 80-90% lenght of tree diamiter thickness of hinge 10%

 

[MasterBlaster]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
When I've done it on some trees, I've had the tree start to go over before making the back cut.

Thats pretty much the whole reason your doing it, but its not really meant for throwing whole trees. But you can do it. When throwing a balanced tree by yourself, thats when it works best.
It also works well on big, thick chunks that are a little too heavy to push over while cutting, and you don't want to put a pull line to it.

I might do it twice a year. Its cool when you do it right. The tree/snag seems to magically fall over with a minimum of prompting from you.

 

[John Ellison]

On the west coast if you are falling for a high lead tower you have to fall every thing, even if its just 15 ft tall and a cull snag. If it is large dia. and short you can stack wedges and pound half the day without tipping it if you just go 1/3 to 1/2 . A common way is to make the first cut of the notch go in until the snag starts to set down on the bar, then you can finish the cuts and it will usually go over nicely.
John

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

You the ant are standing at the base of massive weight, speed and leverage aginst the matchstick.

Have the highest SWL in anything you easily can as you build system; if you face such indominatable force; and can get 8% more support out of better pivot placement X 15% more support/control on hinge length X 22% more support against lean by hinge pattern X 30% Forced stronger Hinge etc. while subtracting force from less speed, less impacted/sudden loaded at end control aginst the lean hinge fiber etc. in about the same amount of time as a not so focused way, just different habit....... i say slide that stuff in for highest SWL=Chance of success/safety; by simply being mechanically correct. Develop the habit of doing it, practicing efficiency; while giving more safety; and learning more; all at one time. Find how much more power in that correctness; and expand what you can do. Look at it like a puzzle; exercise yourself stronger; by reaching towards maximum support/control.

Use the few tools you have; and place them as chess moves dependant on the situation, not stamped form. (IMLHO)

edit-wedging- in leveraging from the rear; has more power to the wedge with a shallower face- viewing distance from hinge pivot point (part of hinge under the lean). So a hinge not coming back as far is farther from the wedge/more leveraged by i think. Throwing a line in the top, and pulling over can leverage over too.

 

[NeTree]

I usually go somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2. Never more than half.

Going to the halfway point can tip the balance if needed.

If it's already leaning pretty much in the right direction, I'll go 1/3 just make it easy on myself.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

That is pretty good distillation of many things into common sense rule.

In an assumed round; stopping right before center, leaves the hinge at center, widest part; no sweat. If there was a lil back lean, let's say no side leans; i'd sneak that hinge patch to just the other side of center/halfway (giving up some hinge length-cuz not needed as much to leverage support agaisnst side lean); so as to put that pivot of the hinge just a'lil further back under the back lean; just what ever few degrees i could gain to advantage in this trickier circumstance of pulling against a rear leaning tree.

If the tree isn't perfectly round, and has side lean away fron target; then i turn on all that other stuff and in the odd pattern/shape of the stump plot the same longest across hinge i can, that Eric's placing hinge at center of round naturally gives; even though i have a different shape to deal with than round.

C.o.B. (Center of Balance) to pivot part of hinge angle/distance; gives the loading charachteristics. On the other side of that pivot; hardest pulled hinge fiber distance/shape to pivot gives support charachteristics. It is like a see-saw lever with the pivot in the middle, only with about a 90o bend at the pivot, the shortenged length on the horizontal leg is made up by wood fiber, used as lines to have enough power to hold against the lean, by tying the tree down to the stump. so the strenght of these fibers and their leveraged positioning must match the length and weight pulls on the other side of the pivot balance.


In the Hinge Forensics Thread ; my whole point was identifying, appreciating the most severely 'marked' parts of the hinge. The most compressed as pivot, the most stretched as holding support; even though i 'read' those parts of an old stump to approximate lean and fall; the real point was the angle of pulls of lean and fall change the way the hinge works within the same hinge! You only have the area of the stump to make those mechanical adjustments in; you can gain more leverage of support by placing the pivot maximized; then putting the holding force of the most stretched wood fibers as far as possible from the pivot. So that whatever strength the most stretched fiber path in hinge has, place further from pivot part of hinge; gives that strenght more leverage.



Like the same man picking up the longest wrench to crank with has more power to task; anything else is less, a compromise, and his SWL against any task he meets isn't as high; so he can't as totally overwhelm the task, and have reserve in case of miss-calculation.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrr sometin'like that,
:alien: