timberwolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
Lets here some stories from dealers and repair shops of people who brought in siezed saws.
Thanks A100HVA for the idea.
Thanks A100HVA for the idea.
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Dealer Stories (oops, my saw siezed)
- Thread starter timberwolf
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spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
You left off "saw was a Stihl." :biggrinbounce2:
timberwolf
Addicted to ArboristSite
Oops, lol, now we will need a poll to determine what brands of saw are most prone to siezing.:deadhorse:
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I voted...
My selection of air filter was only because it "contributed"... yes, blocked air filters don't cause a saw to seize, BUT they do when the fool keeps leaning out the H end, then one day changes or removes his filter.
Airleaks from crank seals rarely cause seizing... The saw generally is hard to start, won't idle for beans and the user gives up. Failure is gnerally progressive. Cylinder base gaskets can be minor, OR, I figure they let go while running hard, and the user just keep the throttle up to keep it running...
Straight gas and really old gas are my two most common scenarios... and really old gas also means rusty junk in the cans etc..
I have seen two clips come loose... but one was factory clip not installed correctly and the other a cheap chinese clip (the one with the single tail) on an 044..
Air leaks to me also means fuel hose splits...
IMO... simple maintenance of fuel/mix, filters etc and an awareness of how it's performing will immunize almost all saws from seizure... If I could just sell that for $10..
My selection of air filter was only because it "contributed"... yes, blocked air filters don't cause a saw to seize, BUT they do when the fool keeps leaning out the H end, then one day changes or removes his filter.
Airleaks from crank seals rarely cause seizing... The saw generally is hard to start, won't idle for beans and the user gives up. Failure is gnerally progressive. Cylinder base gaskets can be minor, OR, I figure they let go while running hard, and the user just keep the throttle up to keep it running...
Straight gas and really old gas are my two most common scenarios... and really old gas also means rusty junk in the cans etc..
I have seen two clips come loose... but one was factory clip not installed correctly and the other a cheap chinese clip (the one with the single tail) on an 044..
Air leaks to me also means fuel hose splits...
IMO... simple maintenance of fuel/mix, filters etc and an awareness of how it's performing will immunize almost all saws from seizure... If I could just sell that for $10..
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robby26wi
ArboristSite Operative
what saws are more prone to seizing?? Ones that are not taken care of and ones that dont get fresh fuel with the correct mix...I would say that most saw issues come from some sort of leak...whether it be in a fuel line-intake or a crank seal...
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A little bit of Loctite "Anti-Sieze" rubbed on the piston and cylinder before assembly should take care of any and all 2 cycle problems. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
vote
I am looking for "I lent my saw to my neighbor".....
I am looking for "I lent my saw to my neighbor".....
Finnbear
ArboristSite Operative
I voted. The 028 I'm working on right now is an older WB model-no chain brake, points ignition, 42mm bore. The P&C look great-EXCEPT the big gouge on the piston and matching one on the cylinder. One of the "ears" on the wrist pin clip broke off and lodged between the piston, cylinder, and port and stopped the saw cold. It pulled really, really hard afterward so I thought maybe I'd scorched and seized a piston but I couldn't imagine how since I'd just mixed the gas the evening before (93 octane and Stihl oil at 45:1). I drained my other saw and dumped the gas from it and the can in the tank of my truck and went and bought new and mixed more. I set the saw aside and didn't get back to it until a couple weeks ago I took it apart and that is when I found the broken clip. What causes a clip like this to just let go after 20 years? This saw has never been apart for anything except one dry-rotted AV mount and a clogged tank vent tube since it was new.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
WTH TW??? you doin' a term paper or somethin'???:help:
Gary
Gary
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
When I worked for Sears in the early '90s the most common cause for siezures in new equipment was straight gas and/or poor quality fuel. There were some gas stations in the area that sold gas with a lot of alcohol and water in it. I used to keep a glas jar handy that I would drain the customers fuel into. Tons of rusty grit and crap would settle to the bottom, and there'd be beads of water. The customer would be evasive when asked how old the fuel was, or where they got it. "That doesn't matter, this machine's just a piece of crap!" We also used to keep a copy of the owners manuals with the section on fuel quality highlighted. Didn't matter...
For the straight gas siezures we used to do the 'paper' trick as mentioned by others in the oil thread (until management ordered us to stop). We didn't have a fancy 'kit' sent to us by the manufacturer however. We'd disassemble the carb (in front of the customer) on a white piece of paper. The oil in the fuel (if any) would stain the paper. We'd drip a small amount of known mix on the same paper, as well as a small amount from their fuel tank. Often the fuel in the tank would have a ton of oil in it, as the customer would attempt to do the cover-up (refill the tank with mix after smoking the engine) as mentioned by Andy in the oil thread. The stain from our mix would be light but noticable. The stain from the 'cover-up' fuel would be DARK. The carb/fuel line stain would be invisible...
In either of the above scenarios, the customer would mutter something, grab their machine, then stomp off to complain to the manager. A half hour later I'd get a call from the manager telling me that we were going to repair the machine and eat the cost! A very smug SOB of a customer would stroll back to the shop with their machine. I'd fix it, then about a third of the time the customer would be back in a week....with another fried cylinder (no doubt from using the same can of gas as before) and pissed off about the 'crappy job' I did.
Most of these failures were with Poulan made weedwackers, although it happened with the Poulan chainsaws Sears sold as well. In my area they sell 100 weedwackers for every saw so it's understandable that we'd get a lot more wackers. In the 'rush period' of spring we'd have a rack full of brand new wackers in the shop waiting for new jugs...
Those wackers (which were also sold as Huskys-but with orange plastic and the cylinder in a 'right side up' instead of 'upside down' configuration) were prone to air leak problems as well. The crankcase sealed to the plastic housing with a large, thin gasket and only four coarse thread square headed scews that threaded directly into the plastic. The screws couldn't be torqued enough to reliably prevent leaks without stripping the plastic. In the later models they attempted to lessen the problem with a small, sharp ridge cast into the gasket surface of the plastic housing that was supposed to bite into the gasket. That was a crappy band aid fix for a crappy design. The Poulan reps had no interest in in our input or concerns. Their saws didn't suffer from this design flaw however, so I didn't vote 'air leak' in the poll...
For the straight gas siezures we used to do the 'paper' trick as mentioned by others in the oil thread (until management ordered us to stop). We didn't have a fancy 'kit' sent to us by the manufacturer however. We'd disassemble the carb (in front of the customer) on a white piece of paper. The oil in the fuel (if any) would stain the paper. We'd drip a small amount of known mix on the same paper, as well as a small amount from their fuel tank. Often the fuel in the tank would have a ton of oil in it, as the customer would attempt to do the cover-up (refill the tank with mix after smoking the engine) as mentioned by Andy in the oil thread. The stain from our mix would be light but noticable. The stain from the 'cover-up' fuel would be DARK. The carb/fuel line stain would be invisible...
In either of the above scenarios, the customer would mutter something, grab their machine, then stomp off to complain to the manager. A half hour later I'd get a call from the manager telling me that we were going to repair the machine and eat the cost! A very smug SOB of a customer would stroll back to the shop with their machine. I'd fix it, then about a third of the time the customer would be back in a week....with another fried cylinder (no doubt from using the same can of gas as before) and pissed off about the 'crappy job' I did.
Most of these failures were with Poulan made weedwackers, although it happened with the Poulan chainsaws Sears sold as well. In my area they sell 100 weedwackers for every saw so it's understandable that we'd get a lot more wackers. In the 'rush period' of spring we'd have a rack full of brand new wackers in the shop waiting for new jugs...
Those wackers (which were also sold as Huskys-but with orange plastic and the cylinder in a 'right side up' instead of 'upside down' configuration) were prone to air leak problems as well. The crankcase sealed to the plastic housing with a large, thin gasket and only four coarse thread square headed scews that threaded directly into the plastic. The screws couldn't be torqued enough to reliably prevent leaks without stripping the plastic. In the later models they attempted to lessen the problem with a small, sharp ridge cast into the gasket surface of the plastic housing that was supposed to bite into the gasket. That was a crappy band aid fix for a crappy design. The Poulan reps had no interest in in our input or concerns. Their saws didn't suffer from this design flaw however, so I didn't vote 'air leak' in the poll...
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Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Nearly all I've seen were caused by an air leak.One was a filter with all the flocking gone[Stihl].The saw had a diet of saw dust and it didn't like it.
I have as yet to see one ran on straight gasoline,which surprises me.
I have as yet to see one ran on straight gasoline,which surprises me.
al, i got this older gent who's been buying saws from me, leave to day kinda pissed off 'cause saw no. 4 is seized up. all 4 have had a steady diet of straight gas AFTER THE TANK OF GAS THAT COMES FROM ME that naturally leaves with a new saw purchase.
he was mutter'in as he left that husky's are no damn good.he also said he's goin' stihl. gosh i wish i knew where he was goin' so i could warn'em what was commin'.
Al Smith
Addicted to ArboristSite
Most of you won't believe this but here goes,regarding the straight gasoline.My cousin worked in a saw shop in Wilmington Ohio,during the 70's that had a rather eccentric owner.He had a triple carbed 090 Stihl that he raced,on straight gas,really.
The outside two Tilley HL's were corked,in other words only came on at full throttle,the center was a Tilley HR.They ran the saw on mixed gas then dumped the fuel,ran it out and put in straight gas.It only ran less than 10 seconds on straight gasoline and never siezed the saw.Of course it was rebuilt on a regular bassis.I don't recommend it.
The outside two Tilley HL's were corked,in other words only came on at full throttle,the center was a Tilley HR.They ran the saw on mixed gas then dumped the fuel,ran it out and put in straight gas.It only ran less than 10 seconds on straight gasoline and never siezed the saw.Of course it was rebuilt on a regular bassis.I don't recommend it.
l2edneck
Small Job Specialist
I voted mech failure because recently had a small piece break off the carb and tear up the piston.(echo)Saw lasted 8 years.
