Decisions

[WV Wildman]

If you "really are" going to stay with shorter logs, and you want to make full width slabs, you have no choise but to get a BIG powerhead and a long bar, and live with all the back breaking work it takes to run it.

Rob

Thats the part thats killing me, big crotch wood is where its at for alot of figure and for slabs it makes very interesting slabs. The width of the small weekend warrior BSM would be very limiting and I know I would end up with a CSM to handle them

Im not afriad of the hard work honestly, and doing this as time permits or when I feel up to it can negate the issues I have with my shoulders.

Maybe I will buy a lottery ticket haha

 

[huskyhank]

You can cut a whole lot of slabs and thick boards with a chainsaw mill in not too much time. I have 3 stacks cut in the last 45 days that when combined are as big as a pick up truck. That's probably 4-5 full days of work. I re-stacked them yesterday and I'm sore from moving them. Its a lot of wood. My goal is to collect as much as I can before it gets warm outside, then take a short break from milling unless I get something too good to pass up.

Still, I'd like to have a band mill and do more sophisticated and faster cuttings. I think I could easily mill more wood than I could use for years and years in a few months. My CSM stuff will fit on a shelf in the garage. A bandmill would take up an entire garage bay. So for the time they're not being used the CSM is sure convenient to store.

 

[BobL]

If you "really are" going to stay with shorter logs, and you want to make full width slabs, you have no choise but to get a BIG powerhead and a long bar, and live with all the back breaking work it takes to run it.

I disagree that using a CSM needs to be a back breaking activity. The reason that most people find it back breaking is because they approach it with twenty year old bull at a gate enthusiasm instead of looking at ways of minimising the effort required.

To start with I never carry my mill any distance because of these.

I can even wheel it through the bush if it's not too dense.

On site the mill is lifted onto a table (mill weight 72 Lb so it's 3 seconds of back breaking time) usually set up right next to the log

Here I can refuel/re-oil and service it standing up
To sharpen it I lay the mill over like this

I even bring a plastic chair with me to the site so I can sharpen sitting down.

Log gets lifted with this;

Then it's a 3 second lift to get the mill onto the log rails to this position.

Start engine on rails and if the chain is sharpened properly and the log is on a slope the operator should just have to lean on the to make it cut. This is no different to BSM.

When I'm really lazy I leave the wheels on the mill and wheel it back to the other end of the log but usually I carry it (7 seconds? of back breaking effort).

Now the slab has to be moved but this is an issue whether one is using a CSM or BSM. This is where the Sack Trolley or hand truck comes in handy.

I agree it's a very slow process but one thing it definitely isn't is back breaking. I'm an overweight lazy (and to use an Aussie colloquialism) parent-less offspring, if it was back breaking I wouldn't be doing it.

 

[gemniii]

I'd vote to start with a CSM.

A REAL important point to minimize pain is get the log high! (no not by having it smoke!) A simple jack system or get it up stable on something with a jack or tractor makes a world of difference.

I've milled most of the work I've done on the ground to mimic what I expect I'll have to do in the woods. It's doable, but not pleasant.

You've got a mill and chainsaw. Try it small at first.
If you can mill with what you've got and like doing it then get a 90CC saw or larger with inboard clutch and side chain tensioner (makes life a lot easier). You should be able to get a new 660 for <$1000, a good used for $600. I went used. Then look at the largest tree your liable to mill. The 660 should take a 42" bar and maybe larger, and a 36" mill or larger.

If you need to get into 56" mills etc. you will need more HP.

So if you go used 660 w/ 42" bar and several chains and a new Mark III you should be able to get by for < $1200. But with the 660 and a 24" bar you can cut any 20" wood with your present mill.

All this time you should be learning to "read wood"

If you get that setup you can probably mill like BobL in a recliner.

At this point you could decide if you wanted to fork over the cash for a much bigger BSM. And if you want you could probably ebay the 600 for near what you paid for it, if you keep it in good shape.

I'd still advise you keep an eye out for a decent BSM, but the difference in cost is great, and you still will need a good chainsaw to cut up trees for the BSM.

And you can always move up to a 72" bar with a double head mill for those BIG trees.

 

[gemniii]

I disagree that using a CSM needs to be a back breaking activity. The reason that most people find it back breaking is because they approach it with twenty year old bull at a gate enthusiasm instead of looking at ways of minimising the effort required.

To start with I never carry my mill any distance because of these.

I can even wheel it through the bush if it's not too dense.

Bob -
You need to figure out how to put a seat, a front axle driven by the powerhead and stearing mechanism on that.

 

[BobL]

Bob -
You need to figure out how to put a seat, a front axle driven by the powerhead and stearing mechanism on that.

I will admit I have had a dream about using a spare set of Harley handlebars that have been laying around the shed for 20 years!

A 90 cc saw will take a 42" bar and allow you to comfortably cut 36" wood, or 40" if you are prepared to make your own mill that mounts to the bar bolts.

 

[WV Wildman]

BobL- I was taught to work smart even at twenty...not really sure how I ended up with a bad back and bum shoulders, I geuss I didnt listen

I wont be sporting wheels on anything like that, part of my job as a photographer is testing and writing about ATV's and UTV's so I usually have several here that get worked hard so I dont have to A few straps on the racks or in the bed will wrok

I reckon i will pul the trigger on the 660 and grab afew chains on a 20 inch bar and see what happens. I can always use another saw and in the future I can get a BSM if I feel the need. (I would suffice to say that I will end up with a full blown mill by the time its over:censored

 

[huskyhank]

snipped.......

I reckon i will pul the trigger on the 660 and grab afew chains on a 20 inch bar and see what happens.

More bar!!! Get a 32!!!!

 

[WV Wildman]

Well i have the 20 inch alaskan so I reckon it will hit ebay since it wont work on the bar yall are recommending(bought it for the saw i have then after reading here that that saw aint got the stones to run as a csm)

I will have to have my dealer order the 660 so set me up....bar size and chain and what size mill to re-order ( if I read correctly, a 32 inch bar with a 36 inch alaska)

 

[BobL]

Well i have the 20 inch alaskan so I reckon it will hit ebay since it wont work on the bar yall are recommending(bought it for the saw i have then after reading here that that saw aint got the stones to run as a csm)

I will have to have my dealer order the 660 so set me up....bar size and chain and what size mill to re-order ( if I read correctly, a 32 inch bar with a 36 inch alaska)

A 32" bar will only give you between 26 and 28" of cut width. I would go for a 42" bar on a 36 or bigger mill that way you can get 36" of cut. Maybe someone else can chip in here - can one even get 36" of cut on a 36" mill?

Now you may never mill a 36" log but there will be times when you are milling a 28" log that has a 36" plus branch union that you want to take a look at - it also just makes it easier to work around lumps and bumps and not to have to stop to cut them off etc.

 

[huskyhank]

Well i have the 20 inch alaskan so I reckon it will hit ebay since it wont work on the bar yall are recommending(bought it for the saw i have then after reading here that that saw aint got the stones to run as a csm)

I will have to have my dealer order the 660 so set me up....bar size and chain and what size mill to re-order ( if I read correctly, a 32 inch bar with a 36 inch alaska)

A 36" Alaskan will cut about 33-34 inches with a 42" bar. A 32" bar on the mill will let you cut about 26". If you have other saws you might just get the 42. If you don't have another big saw I'd get the 32 also. It'll be a nice back up for the 42" and it'll be lots better for most falling and bucking.

 

[WV Wildman]

So a 42 inch bar on a 56 inch mill?

At what length will I need to start looking at aux. oilers? 36 inches is pretty big for around here even with a decent crotch piece.

 

[BobL]

BobL- I was taught to work smart even at twenty...not really sure how I ended up with a bad back and bum shoulders, I geuss I didnt listen

Well stuff can happen to anyone so even the most careful of us can end up damaged.

I wont be sporting wheels on anything like that, part of my job as a photographer is testing and writing about ATV's and UTV's so I usually have several here that get worked hard so I dont have to A few straps on the racks or in the bed will wrok

The wheels are most useful for moving the mill from my shed to my van at home where I have about a 40 yard walk down a narrow side path alongside our house. Teh wheels also make it a lot easier to slide the mill into the van. Once the wheels are on I often just leave them on so I even use them moving the mill the dozen yards from my van to the log on site. However, you shouldn't really need wheels with a 660 and even a 42" bar and 36" mill - that's gonna be about 50 lbs all up.

I reckon i will pul the trigger on the 660 and grab afew chains on a 20 inch bar and see what happens. I can always use another saw and in the future I can get a BSM if I feel the need. (I would suffice to say that I will end up with a full blown mill by the time its over:censored

Yep - I reckon you will learn a lot even from that. Besides - I reckon you cannot have to many chainsaws!

 

[huskyhank]

So a 42 inch bar on a 56 inch mill?

At what length will I need to start looking at aux. oilers? 36 inches is pretty big for around here even with a decent crotch piece.

A 42" bar on a 36" mill cuts about 33" maximum.

A 60" bar on a 56" mill ought to cut about 53" maximum.
I don't have a 60" bar in my hands yet but this ought to be about right. You lose about 6" of cutting length because the mill clamps on the bar at each end.

I find my 36" mill with a 42" bar to be not too hard to move around. I'd start there if I had to do it again as its big enough most of the time. Also, my 3120 (118cc) pulls the 42" bar much better than my 2100 (100cc). I think a 36" mill may be the upper comfortable limit for a 660.

If you get a 660, get an aux. oiler for the 36" mill. My Huskys oil really well as they both have auto and manual oilers. So I don't use my aux. oiler. (have one but don't bother but I might start using it to see if it helps) I think a 660 with a 42" bar on a 36" mill will need more bar oil. Someone else here with experience with that saw can answer for sure.

 

[gemniii]

So a 42 inch bar on a 56 inch mill?

At what length will I need to start looking at aux. oilers? 36 inches is pretty big for around here even with a decent crotch piece.

You seem to be getting it mixed up. You need a bar about 6" longer than your mill spec. A 42" bar for a 36" mill. Longer if you leave the big dogs on.

What is your present saw and bar? I milled most of my first tree with my JD CS 62 (4.7hp), a 28" bar, and sharp ripping chain. About my widest cut was 20". The saw would bog down a bit, but if I just took it slow and kept the chain sharp it worked well.

Really though, if you go the 660 route I'd recommend you get a 24", 25" or 26" bar and a ripping chain and try out your present alaskan if your wood is under 20". I think you will still want a relatively short bar like that just for the occasional crosscut, plus a good 25" bar is a lot less expensive than a 42" and easier learn on and to swing.

As far as an oiler it depends on your saw. My JD CS 62 w/ 28" would spray well, my 660 w/28" seems a little "dry" and I think I'm going to have to add a drip bottle.

 

[WV Wildman]

I got numbers confused me thinks

Ok...I think I will order teh 660 with a 24 to26 inch bar and start from there. I can always go bigger when needed and after seeing the unit in action, fabricating my own mill wont be a problem.

Now, what seems to be the best place to purchase chains to get started with. I know the dealer I use doesnt have them in stock and imagine they would get pricey if he had to order them in special. (Baileys seems well recommended)

Next question...is it feasible to buy a thinner bar and use the factory bar and chain for what it was intended and use say a woodland pro or is it not worth it?

 

[gr8scott72]

I got numbers confused me thinks

Ok...I think I will order teh 660 with a 24 to26 inch bar and start from there. I can always go bigger when needed and after seeing the unit in action, fabricating my own mill wont be a problem.

Now, what seems to be the best place to purchase chains to get started with. I know the dealer I use doesnt have them in stock and imagine they would get pricey if he had to order them in special.

I wouldn't even bother with a bar that small to mill with. You lose 6" of that so you're only able to do 18" - 20" with that max. That size bar would be good to have to be able to use that saw for firewood and such.

I would get a 42" bar like mentioned already and then call Bailey's and just order the 36" rails for the alaskan that you already have. That sounds like the perfect size for the stuff you are talking about.

(Bailey's sells the ripping chain too.)

Just to fuel your fire, here's a 53.5" wide red oak slab cut with my 60" bar on a 56" alaskan:

 

[BobL]

A 42" bar on a 36" mill cuts about 33" maximum.

A 60" bar on a 56" mill ought to cut about 53" maximum.
I don't have a 60" bar in my hands yet but this ought to be about right. You lose about 6" of cutting length because the mill clamps on the bar at each end.

I find my 36" mill with a 42" bar to be not too hard to move around. I'd start there if I had to do it again as its big enough most of the time. Also, my 3120 (118cc) pulls the 42" bar much better than my 2100 (100cc). I think a 36" mill may be the upper comfortable limit for a 660.

If you get a 660, get an aux. oiler for the 36" mill. My Huskys oil really well as they both have auto and manual oilers. So I don't use my aux. oiler. (have one but don't bother but I might start using it to see if it helps) I think a 660 with a 42" bar on a 36" mill will need more bar oil. Someone else here with experience with that saw can answer for sure.

I have run my 42" bars on 54 and 64" mill rails rails and although I have the ally rail material to make smaller sets of mill rails, I have never felt the need to use them. Using the 64" rails with the 42" bar in the bush is a bit clumsy but otherwise milling with them in the yard is fine and they actually help to balance the weight of the bigger powerheads on smaller logs.

I have 25, 30 and 36" bars for smaller logs but I tend to use the 42" right down to about 20" and it's only then I go with my smaller mill.

I use aux oilers even on my small mill and shorter bars. Big output oiler saws like the 880 (38 ml/min) and 3120 (54 ml/min) don't have as much of an advantage as it first seems because most of the extra oil they pump onto the chain is lost when the chain goes around the nose before the chain gets to the cutting side. On cutting buddy Hud's 3120 I see a lot more oil dripping off the bar nose guard than the 880 and both drip a lot more than the 076 (19 ml/min) so my guess is the extra oil just wasted unless the nose is buried in the wood. FOr milling it's far better to deliver the oil to the cutting side of the bar after the chain has gone around the nose.

On 40 -50" cuts, I like to see the aux oil flood a little out onto the bar. This is what I reckon is about right a right level of Aux oil output.

The use of an aux oiler to take some of the load off the powerhead can pretty clearly be seen with the saw temperature increasing within about 20s seconds after turning off the aux oiler. Using no aux oiler on long bars puts a similar load on a powerhead as using a partially blunt chain.

 

[Andrew96]

Boy what a can of worms over bar length. I'd look at this way wildman...the 660 will pull a lot of bar in hard wood. Get a bar too big and now you've got to move it around all the time. Too small and you cannot cut any slab big enough to get the benefit of going the CSM route over the BSM. (really..you need two but that is the can of worms all over again).
I started with a 36" bar cutting 30" on my mill. It took me 2 trees to wish I had another few inches (forgot about bumps...limbs etc). 30" cut was so close...a 36" cut would have been perfect slabbing around Ontario hardwoods. If you're buying a bar anyway..think about how big you'd like your slab to be. Do you really need a 50" wide bench? Now many trees do you see that need 40" or so of cut? Using my 660...seems somewhere around a 36" bar is aux oiler zone. At that length..on that saw...it depends on the wood. I've yet to test my aux oiler addition to my 36" bar setup.

 

[WV Wildman]

Andrew many thanks as well as everyone else.

I think the 42 inch bar with a 36 inch mill on the 660 should be a solid place to start along with an aux. oil set up.