RepublicOfTrees
New Member
Has anyone out there ever used that Dutch Trig product for preventing Dutch Elm? I've heard about it but am curious if anyone has used it with any success? How about Arbotect?
Dutch Trig for DED?
- Thread starter RepublicOfTrees
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NYCHA FORESTER
ArboristSite Operative
Last I heard was that it was not approved for use in the United States.
RepublicOfTrees
New Member
That's what I thought but their webiste claims "Extensively tested in the US since 1995 and fully EPA approved since 2005" so I was wondering if anyone had bought and tried it yet. :monkey:
tprosser
ArboristSite Operative
I recently talked to a guy who was involved in the project with the city of Denver where they treated a bunch of trees. He said that the treated trees died at the same rate as the untreated trees. Then said that some of the treated trees got sick from the treatment. That when they stopped treating the trees got better. They no longer use it.
I cannot find any research on it.
I cannot find any research on it.
cryo stops wear
ArboristSite Lurker
ded
If you can get pentra bark and agri fos fungicide use agri fos @ 1.5 qts into 1 gal of h20 then add 5 ozs. of pentra bark in a
backpack sprayer and hose down 8` of trunk. This isnt yet labeled for ded but the high phosphite content will clean out vascular system. you can also substitute propiconazole for agri fos use at 100 gal rate in 2 gal of h20 . THEN add pentra bark @ 4 ozs. per gal of finished material and hose it down.
Check local laws before applying of course.
If you can get pentra bark and agri fos fungicide use agri fos @ 1.5 qts into 1 gal of h20 then add 5 ozs. of pentra bark in a
backpack sprayer and hose down 8` of trunk. This isnt yet labeled for ded but the high phosphite content will clean out vascular system. you can also substitute propiconazole for agri fos use at 100 gal rate in 2 gal of h20 . THEN add pentra bark @ 4 ozs. per gal of finished material and hose it down.
Check local laws before applying of course.
BonsaiJedi
ArboristSite.com Sponsor
cryo stops wear
ArboristSite Lurker
ded
During the 3 years of use I have not lost any elms, some had very high pressure from diseased trees that were very close.
There is also a product called prontech that should be labeled soon for ded. The agri fos works great on spruce and beech canker and has made 90% of trees treated more vigorous.
Customers have even noticed there trees are healthier.
The only down side is the penta bark can burn plants around base and turf but if you wet down before and after the burn will not happen. It will also kill lichens and algae etc, on trunk and will leave a white appearance do to killing of lichens etc,
During the 3 years of use I have not lost any elms, some had very high pressure from diseased trees that were very close.
There is also a product called prontech that should be labeled soon for ded. The agri fos works great on spruce and beech canker and has made 90% of trees treated more vigorous.
Customers have even noticed there trees are healthier.
The only down side is the penta bark can burn plants around base and turf but if you wet down before and after the burn will not happen. It will also kill lichens and algae etc, on trunk and will leave a white appearance do to killing of lichens etc,
Urban Forester
ArboristSite Guru
Our best experience has come from macro-infusing Arbortect.
Dutch BCMA
ArboristSite Lurker
Dutch Trig for Dutch Elm Disease
Dutch Trig is a biological vaccin for American Elm trees to prevent DED.
A few drops of vaccine are injected in May, on healthy trees resulting in a very high level of protection from DED. The vaccine strengthens the elms natural immune system, with a 99% efficacy. The trees which are lost in the remaining 1% are lost to root graft transmitted infections, against which nothing can be done, or already existing infections, against which this preventative vaccine does not help.
Dutch Trig has been used successfully on many locations in the US already, amongst others Grant Park in downtown Chicago (800 elms) and University campus in Seattle and Princeton.
Dutch Trig has been introduced in Minnesota for the first time during the ISA trade show in Minneapolis in the summer of 2006, the main reason why Dutch Trig is relatively unknown in this elm-rich area of the US.
The reason why the City of Denver stopped the program is that many of the Dutch Trig treated trees were already infected with DED, and thus still died despite the injections. Secondly, because Denver has an isolated "pocket" of about 1500 elms in total, in combination with the strong monitoring and removal program, has succeeded to diminish DED in the entire population to a level where monitoring and removal is proficient to control DED.
Dutch Trig is an effective tool in the fight against DED. It is environmentally safe, application is fast (seconds) and easy, and thus affordable. Dutch Trig offers Arborists a tool to protect many elm trees every year and city's and communities a chance to safe a lot of money because of the fast application and the minimal amount of product used. (In the Netherlands 35.000 elm trees are treated every year in a period of 4 weeks with a team of 16 arborists).
Dutch Trig is a biological vaccin for American Elm trees to prevent DED.
A few drops of vaccine are injected in May, on healthy trees resulting in a very high level of protection from DED. The vaccine strengthens the elms natural immune system, with a 99% efficacy. The trees which are lost in the remaining 1% are lost to root graft transmitted infections, against which nothing can be done, or already existing infections, against which this preventative vaccine does not help.
Dutch Trig has been used successfully on many locations in the US already, amongst others Grant Park in downtown Chicago (800 elms) and University campus in Seattle and Princeton.
Dutch Trig has been introduced in Minnesota for the first time during the ISA trade show in Minneapolis in the summer of 2006, the main reason why Dutch Trig is relatively unknown in this elm-rich area of the US.
The reason why the City of Denver stopped the program is that many of the Dutch Trig treated trees were already infected with DED, and thus still died despite the injections. Secondly, because Denver has an isolated "pocket" of about 1500 elms in total, in combination with the strong monitoring and removal program, has succeeded to diminish DED in the entire population to a level where monitoring and removal is proficient to control DED.
Dutch Trig is an effective tool in the fight against DED. It is environmentally safe, application is fast (seconds) and easy, and thus affordable. Dutch Trig offers Arborists a tool to protect many elm trees every year and city's and communities a chance to safe a lot of money because of the fast application and the minimal amount of product used. (In the Netherlands 35.000 elm trees are treated every year in a period of 4 weeks with a team of 16 arborists).
RepublicOfTrees
New Member
Thanks for the ad, Dutch, but I was curious if any ARBORIST had used it in the real world here in the states, not just in trials.
Dutch BCMA
ArboristSite Lurker
A list of Arborist Companies using Dutch Trig can be found on the product's website (Results, United States page). To get a list with details of Arborists whom you can contact, contact the European Distributor contact person by e-mail and refer to this tread. He can help you out with all the details by e-mail.
tprosser
ArboristSite Operative
Dutch Trig like many other proposed cures
I had a conversation with the Person who was responsible for the city of Denver's Dutch Trig Project. He now works for Swingle. He told me that the trees were not infected before treatment and that the Dutch Trig did not work. He went so far as to call dutch trig - "a Joke". He also said it made many of the trees sick (Droopy and sickly were his words). He said after they stopped treating the trees got better. This is not the first material that has come into this market making these claims and not fulfilling them. Putting Verticillium Dahlia into a tree seems a little risky to me.
The only product with a proven track record at this point, is Arbotect used at the 12 oz per inch rate injected into the root flares with a large volume of water dilution. This is what most Arborists swear by and they probably won't risk their clients trees based on your claims.
I had a conversation with the Person who was responsible for the city of Denver's Dutch Trig Project. He now works for Swingle. He told me that the trees were not infected before treatment and that the Dutch Trig did not work. He went so far as to call dutch trig - "a Joke". He also said it made many of the trees sick (Droopy and sickly were his words). He said after they stopped treating the trees got better. This is not the first material that has come into this market making these claims and not fulfilling them. Putting Verticillium Dahlia into a tree seems a little risky to me.
The only product with a proven track record at this point, is Arbotect used at the 12 oz per inch rate injected into the root flares with a large volume of water dilution. This is what most Arborists swear by and they probably won't risk their clients trees based on your claims.
Kneejerk Bombas
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Aren't a lot of folks using Alamo now for DED?
tprosser
ArboristSite Operative
Alamo for DED
No not very many companies are using Alamo for Dutch Elm Disease. It is highly effective, but only for 1 year. The research done at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University clearly shows that it does not move into new wood nor does it stay in the tree for longer than the current season.
Some people claim it lasts longer - but our experience and others such as Bartlett, Davey, and Swingle show that it is a current year treatment only. This makes it impracticable to use since it provides no DED protection the following spring before you can treat and you have to wound every year versus Arbotect which needs reapplication after 3 years.
Here is the link to the research I mentioned above: http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-060899-161452/unrestricted/Diss.pdf
No not very many companies are using Alamo for Dutch Elm Disease. It is highly effective, but only for 1 year. The research done at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University clearly shows that it does not move into new wood nor does it stay in the tree for longer than the current season.
Some people claim it lasts longer - but our experience and others such as Bartlett, Davey, and Swingle show that it is a current year treatment only. This makes it impracticable to use since it provides no DED protection the following spring before you can treat and you have to wound every year versus Arbotect which needs reapplication after 3 years.
Here is the link to the research I mentioned above: http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-060899-161452/unrestricted/Diss.pdf
Last edited:
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Didn't Swingle have a huge judgeemnt against them after using Alamo several years ago, a large number of very mature trees died?
I agree with your assesment of Arbotech Tom, but I think you should disclose your relationship in the statement.
tprosser
ArboristSite Operative
I am not sure of the details on Swingle - but that is what I also heard.
Our company treats about 8500 elms with Arbotect over a 3 year period and we are the distributor for both Alamo and Arbotect for the US. (We could also be a distributor of Dutch Trig - but chose not to be)
I think that is what you meant by disclosure - I already assumed people knew this.
Thanks
Tom
Our company treats about 8500 elms with Arbotect over a 3 year period and we are the distributor for both Alamo and Arbotect for the US. (We could also be a distributor of Dutch Trig - but chose not to be)
I think that is what you meant by disclosure - I already assumed people knew this.
Thanks
Tom
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Thanks Tom, many of us do, but the casual reader may not.
And thatnks for being a sponsor too
Wash off your keyboard after typing that!
Or else type it correctly: "THE university of Virginia" -- as in Virginia Tech (otherwise known as Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University). They only do sissy research at UVA, VT is the place for trees in that Commonwealth
Go Hokies!
(Thanks for the link -to the VT research- though. I am also looking at options to help folks address DED concerns. I am hesitant to recommend treatments until I cna read as much research as possible on them.)
Tree Keeper
New Member
I don't believe the question is which one is better because it seems that both Arbotect and Dutch Trig have the necessary research and a proven track record. Dutch Trig offers a lower cost option for the property with several elms not to mention the speed at which DT can be applied. A highly trained crew could possibly treat 15 to 20 elms in a ten hour day with Arbotect. 15 to 20 elms could be treated by one guy before lunch with DT. I have also seen elms that have been injected several times over with Arbotect using label recommendations and you are often lucky to find healthy wood in which to place the high helix bit
Urban Forester
ArboristSite Guru
That is a concern, no doubt. However I'm a strong believer in the old adage "if it's not broke, don't fix it'. We have used Arbortect since day one, and it's saved many trees. I defend (?) "injection site wounding" in the same way I do w/EAB. Is 6 or 8 small holes worse than 200 larvae eating the crap out of tree or in this case a rapidly moving vascular 'destroyer' killing an 80 or 90 year old tree?
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