Dying Live Oak.$$$$

[beastmaster]

The people who owns this tree I think are being sold a bill of goods and giving false hope for its recovery. The large oak I worked on today was a beautiful specimen of Quercus agrifolia two years ago. In less then a year it had completely defoliated.(is that a word?)
A local consulting arborist(has a doctrine in something)came and evaluated the tree. Said it had beetles. the tree was sprayed, fertilized, the root zone was inoculated with mycorrhiza , who knows what else was sold to these people. Their grandfather planted it as a boy and it has special meaning to them. This consulting arborist recommended us to remove the dead.
Over 50% of the tree is dead. Seasoned firewood. Since treatment the tree has sprouted out a little green on some of the crown, but its sparse to put it mildly. After removing the dead the tree looks way thin. I was hoping no one I knew would drive bye and see me working in it.
The tree had two different kinds of beetles that I saw, and flat head borers. All in the upper parts of the tree. These are probably secondary pest. most were in dead wood. It looks to me like a classic Phytophthora ramorum.
The bark is pealing off on most parts of the upper tree I had them bring in the crane to remove a 35ft section of tree over the house. I had to argue about that. It was green but in one spot the bark was coming off and I could see ambrosia beetles ready to come out.
I am not a Dr. or anything, but I know a lost cause, but lots of people are making money off that tree. A tree that stressed shouldn't be fertilized, An Oak(live Oak)that has lost all it's leaves two years in a row probably won't make it though the summer
My boss tell me I read to many tree books and not to question this consulting Arborists diagnosis or treatment, and for sure don't talk to the home owner(I don't) Any one think this tree could survive and this "Arborist" is being honest and this is standard treatment procedure? Beastmaster

 

[treeseer]

beast, you may be right, but without pics and the consultants report it is hard to say. Also,

The bark is pealing off on most parts of the upper tree I had them bring in the crane to remove a 35ft section of tree over the house. I had to argue about that. It was green but in one spot the bark was coming off and I could see ambrosia beetles ready to come out.

This totally depends on how much of this section had bark shedding, and how much is intact. If only a patch was dead and buggy, then big mistake to remove the whole thing. Pics would tell a lot here.

I looked at a big tuliptree the other day; massive root damage, all the soil stunk. I gave it a 2% chance of making it, but after they asked their options about invigoration I said Maybe 8% if they aerated etc. the rootzone--still very poor. If they want to buy the work I (or someone else) will do it.

As long as client knows the facts observed and an honest prognosis on treatments then no harm done.

 

[sgreanbeans]

There are alot of people out there selling "miracle cures" They don't care about anything other than the dollar, they send out kids to do the work who have no idea what hey are doing, end up over doing it or I have even seen them treat the wrong tree. EAB treatment is big now, everybody thinks that these treatments are 100% effective, at least that's what the salesman told em, its too bad, but never gonna go away! I would say your customer was an easy sell to the guy, impressed him with a big treatment plan on a tree that sounds like its time to go. When I run across those, the lost cause's. I try to sell them on the idea of replacement. Trees with sentimental value are a tough deal no matter what

 

[treeslayer]

The people who owns this tree I think are being sold a bill of goods and giving false hope for its recovery.

I had them bring in the crane to remove a 35ft section of tree over the house. I had to argue about that.

I am not a Dr. or anything, but I know a lost cause, but lots of people are making money off that tree.

so why did you make them pay for a crane to prune a limb out then?

 

[beastmaster]

so why did you make them pay for a crane to prune a limb out then?

The company I work for has its own crane. The branch had a lot of dead branches and the house had a tile roof. It would of taken me all day to carefully cut and lower each piece and even then a groundmans can't stand on the tile roof so we would of had to tag line em. So on and so on. One cut and the crane lifted that limb over the house and into the street. took 20min. max. didn't cost the home owner nothing
Quote:
This totally depends on how much of this section had bark shedding, and how much is intact. If only a patch was dead and buggy, then big mistake to remove the whole thing. Pics would tell here.

I debated that limb for a while before deciding it should come out. After seeing it on the ground and checking it out , I wondered if I made the right move, because the main leader was in better shape then I had thought.
But under the circumstances I feel I made the right choice with the info I had. 30% of the bark was easily coming off. I could see gallerys from beetles in the bare parts and saw several ambrosia beetles ready to emerge. We had removed several other large branches lower down that had died, but the main factor was it was right over a bedroom and it was a long heavy branch. I was a little surprised the main stem was in such good shape but the cut where the bark was falling off half of it was really discolored.
I didn't have my camera and even if I did I don't think I'd of posted any pictures. I am an employee and I do what the boss says(most the time anyway)but I'm sort of embarrassed about that tree.
The home Owner was really happy with the tree. What do they know.

 

[treeseer]

I debated that limb for a while before deciding it should come out. After seeing it on the ground and checking it out , I wondered if I made the right move, because the main leader was in better shape then I had thought.
But under the circumstances I feel I made the right choice with the info I had. 30% of the bark was easily coming off. I could see gallerys from beetles in the bare parts and saw several ambrosia beetles ready to emerge. We had removed several other large branches lower down that had died, but the main factor was it was right over a bedroom and it was a long heavy branch. I was a little surprised the main stem was in such good shape but the cut where the bark was falling off half of it was really discolored.

Thanks for you honest and thorough reply; sounds like a tough call. Fear factor re targets kicks in all the time, and skews the judgment of many a good consultant. Also on those big spreading trees cabling options are limited.

Competing interests: if the boss had a firm bid for pruning, you did the company bottom line good by taking the whole limb out instead of reducing, but maybe not helping the client or more importantly the tree. If you all were working by the hour, then just picking away at it would have helped everyone. At least you'd see more of the limb and the decision would have been way more informed, if it really had to come out.

Tile roofs are tough to work over; usually I like to stand on roofs and prune with the hayauchi but if ya can't ya can't.

re pics, they can be taken without identifying company. Even if we knew, we wouldn't tell. :angel:

 

[treeslayer]

The company I work for has its own crane. The branch had a lot of dead branches and the house had a tile roof. It would of taken me all day to carefully cut and lower each piece and even then a groundmans can't stand on the tile roof so we would of had to tag line em. So on and so on. One cut and the crane lifted that limb over the house and into the street. took 20min. max. didn't cost the home owner nothing
Quote:
This totally depends on how much of this section had bark shedding, and how much is intact. If only a patch was dead and buggy, then big mistake to remove the whole thing. Pics would tell here.

I debated that limb for a while before deciding it should come out. After seeing it on the ground and checking it out , I wondered if I made the right move, because the main leader was in better shape then I had thought.
But under the circumstances I feel I made the right choice with the info I had. 30% of the bark was easily coming off. I could see gallerys from beetles in the bare parts and saw several ambrosia beetles ready to emerge. We had removed several other large branches lower down that had died, but the main factor was it was right over a bedroom and it was a long heavy branch. I was a little surprised the main stem was in such good shape but the cut where the bark was falling off half of it was really discolored.
I didn't have my camera and even if I did I don't think I'd of posted any pictures. I am an employee and I do what the boss says(most the time anyway)but I'm sort of embarrassed about that tree.
The home Owner was really happy with the tree. What do they know.

good answer.

 

[beastmaster]

I'll be checking that tree out on my own from time to time. The Company I work for is a really good Company. A year ago I know we would of turned that job down. But Work has dried up out here. It's scary.
We tried to talk the home owner into removing the tree. If I was a betting man Ied bet the farm we'll be back to remove that tree.
The Consulting Arborist(Who's vary well known in this area) and use told the home owner their were no guarantees.
The reason I question the consulting PhD Arborists methods and diagnosis is I am currently going to school for my AS degree and I am being armed with all this new knowledge. Lot of knowledge with out the experience to applie it properly can make you dangerous(furtively speaking)
Thank you for the feed back. Beast.

 

[Wishie22]

Sounds like the tree is sentimental to the owners. Who will do what they can before removal.