echo 450p build MM and port

[derrek_j]

Hello all,

Long story short, I bought an Echo 450p and am using it to try my hand at modding a saw. This may be a little drawn out as I'm going to work on it as time allows.

Initial plans are to record a baseline, muffler mod, base gasket delete, possibly cutting cylinder down, port and Polish. I will take video of each step for comparison.

Looked saw over after I got it home, muffler has a cat and is very restricted, stock compression is at 150 psi. found a big lip on the exhaust port. Bought a woodland narrow kerf bar and some chains.

 

[derrek_j]

first run stock was unimpressive, I tuned it right away after losing the caps, and it was just lacking in power.

I am currently uploading video to YouTube of the before and after of the muffler mod.

After gutting the muffler I gained approx 3 to 6 seconds in the same wood with the same bar and chain. I had a time of 12 seconds while leaning on it stock and 14 with it trying to keep rpm up. After MM I had between 7 and 9 seconds. This seems a bit drastic, but when the videos load I will put a link.

The saw feels good now. has pretty good mid to high range power as well.
I gasket matched both the exhaust port as well as the muffler inlet, removed cat and baffles, cut out outlet and opened up the deflector, removed the lip on the exhaust port as well.

 

[mountainlake]

That about normal for most Echo models and why they really need to get that clogged up muff open. Steve

 

[derrek_j]

 

[derrek_j]

 

[Chris-PA]

Certainly a big improvement!

 

[derrek_j]

Certainly a big improvement!

It definitely surprised me. I was not expecting that much improvement out of it.

 

[svk]

Subbed. Thank you for taking the time to share all of this.

 

[derrek_j]

Subbed. Thank you for taking the time to share all of this.

no problem, it really peaked my interest when I could find only one other build documented on this saw. I figured a) I'm really stupid or b) I might be able to help someone else out. That and the fact I was gonna take video anyways just to document for my self how much things improved, it doesn't take that much extra time to write it up.

 

[banditt007]

Good thread only thing I noticed, was it seems like you had a much better tune on it after the muff mod. It sounded way too rich on the stock run which was likely killing off performance more than it should have. I would be interested if you could do a video or just a written summary of the performance difference of deleting the base gasket or putting in a thinner gasket to get the minimal safe squish prior to porting. Also how thick the stock gasket is, and what your stock squish is.

I have the same saw and havent messed with base gasket/porting. Mine hits about 155psi also. While you have the saw opened up i would reposition the breather into the carb area under the removable cover. As they sit stock its stuffed next to the handle right behind the clutch cover and gets blasted by all sorts of wood chips/dust/gunk. I didn't have a problem with it stopping up but the position sucks. What do you think about the gas cap? Am i the only one that ALWAYS needs the screw driver to remove it!? I like the saw a lot but a few things on it make you scratch your head. I would love to know of an easy to grip cap (by hand) that fits those threads.

 

[derrek_j]

I just rewatched the before video and it does sound rich, i had taken a video earlier that it sounds better in with the same tune , but didnt post it due to my oldest trying to yell at me over the running chainsaw... in those videos I had a time of about 12 and 13 seconds, so that may be more accurate.

I'm hoping to get it tore down this week, but I was told today that I have a pretty large hunny do list, so may not have a chance to, time will tell. but I do plan on taking pictures and documenting throughout when I get to it.

I did notice the breather in a horrible spot, was planning on moving that at some point as well.

the gas cap would bother me more if they hadn't put the screwdriver slot in, what does bug me is the opening to pour gas seems tiny, atleast to my jonsered and husqvarna.

So far with just the muffler mod done, I would be fine running the saw as is. it feels good in my hands, has decent power for its size, and over all would make someone a good saw, especially for the price of a new one.

 

[derrek_j]

tore saw down tonight, stock was around 050" on intake side. compressed gasket the best I could tell was .018", the tab sticking out was .020" on the exhaust side no gasket I'm getting .028" intake is .032" which would match the .018" compressed gasket. will let sealer set up and hopefully run Fri or sat. will put up a video when I do

 

[banditt007]

Very nice thanks very much. Any tricks to removing g the engine or is it straight forward?

 

[derrek_j]

it's pretty straight forward, will need a long 4mm or long ball hex socket, the only real issue was the screws for the oiler Assy. They used a Phillips head on there and I about rounded the two off trying to get them out. it really should be a hex head not Phillips.

echo used grey rtv sealer on the crankcase halves, i used permatex ultra grey and I used permatex anaerobic gasket maker for cylinder.

 

[Chris-PA]

echo used grey rtv sealer on the crankcase halves, i used permatex ultra grey and I used permatex anaerobic gasket maker for cylinder.

Why use different sealants? Both seams open into the same case area with fuel in contact with the sealant.

 

[derrek_j]

the cylinder to upper crankcase is machined a lot better, anaerobic gasket maker does not fill as well as rtv. the case halves appeared to have a lot more imperfections, where rtv would work better.

but im pulling it back apart to remove the ultra grey rtv, it is not for direct contact with fuel. I have some loctite 5999 that I'm going to use instead. I use that at work, and have quite a bit laying around, it seals really well, but is a nightmare to take apart.

 

[banditt007]

Check out permatex motoseal. It's fairly available n works with fuel. It's much thinner than regular RTV. Drys flexible.

 

[derrek_j]

Check out permatex motoseal. It's fairly available n works with fuel. It's much thinner than regular RTV. Drys flexible.

I haven't seen that anywhere yet. I'm a diesel tech, so most of the stuff I use or have laying around are Cummins, Volvo or Detroit sealers or their equivalents. I work on autos at home too, so that's what is available to me.

But I stripped it down last night and just used anaerobic on both.

will have it breathing fire tonight or tomorrow with a new vid.

 

[banditt007]

Sweet. Can't wait to see how it reacts.

 

[derrek_j]

got it running in some wood his afternoon, same wood and same chain, ran about 6 to 6.5 seconds. so between 1 to 2 seconds gain.

I tried checking compression and I think my gauge is going bad. first was 155, ran it a bit, cooled down and it read 125. I checked my jonsered which has always been 185, and it read 145. I'll check it later with a different gauge and see. video to follow.