Estimation Worksheet

[FSburt]

Hey fellas I found this worksheet on time estimations for trims and removals and was wondering if you guys think it is overestimating on time. Seems to me it is but just curious what you guys think.

Trims Small Med Large
DBH 5-12" 12-25" 25+"
1 Person 3-5hrs 6-8hrs 9+hrs
2 Person 1.5-2hrs 3-4hrs 4.5hrs


Removals
1 person 9 hrs 15 hrs 24hrs
2person 4.5hrs 7.5hrs 12hrs

Came from the line clearance side so that is probably why the time estimates are so high.

 

[treeman82]

Not sure I follow you there. If you are doing a removal, and the job only calls for getting it to the ground, when you can just throw a rope up and pull it over with the truck... Vs. getting it to the ground when it is over a house. Or removing the wood Vs. leaving it bucked up. Too many variables to really set a time limit, or price limit. Just my train of thought though.

 

[treeclimber165]

I don't think I could ever use a time estimation chart to tell me how long a job will take. This would be comperable to quoting prices over the phone without looking at the tree. Like Matt said, way too many variables to take into consideration to have any type of set formula for our pricing.

The good news is that after 5-10 years of bidding jobs you can just look at a tree and spit out a price. You may not even know how you came up with it, but it will be accurate.

 

[Greg]

I agree no two trees are the same, unless they are identical twins of course.

Along the same subject----- What type of disclaimers do you have on your work orders or estimates? I've seen one of a very big tree co in town that has a small paragraph about how they are not responsible for damage to underground water or elec lines unless clearly marked. They are not responsible for broken concrete, Etc....
Greg

 

[Stumper]

Weird. As the other guys said every tree is different so the chart doesn't seem relevant. Even considering the vagaries of varios trees I can't make sense of the chart-I can't recall ever spending 5 hrs on a 12" DBH prune.

 

[treeman82]

Greg, I have this as a section in my contracts... not sure how it would hold up in court... but it is there none the less.

V. Permits / Utilities / Maps
A: All necessary permits to be acquired by homeowner / property manager prior to the start of any work being performed.
B: Homeowner / property manager is responsible for marking property lines, as well as wetlands borders of said property as listed in section II.
C: Homeowner / property manager are responsible for locating and marking septic systems, irrigation systems, underground dog fences, and wells.
D. Homeowner / property manager agrees to have any overhead conductors lowered to the ground should it be requested in writing.
E. Maps not to scale:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Identical trees could be diffrent by where they are located i think, and the conditions that are required for service/ full prejudicial amputation.

 

[DDM]

Originally posted by treeman82
[
D. Homeowner / property manager agrees to have any overhead conductors lowered to the ground should it be requested in writing.
: [/B]

Will the Power company do that?

 

[treeman82]

Dave, the power company and phone company will drop any and all lines going to the house provided that a call be made at least a few days in advance. This is normally a free service. I have heard of street lines being dropped... but do not have any experience with that personally.

 

[FSburt]

Like I said earlier this chart came from the Line clearance side of estimating time and work so I figure it ismore for R/W trims and removals with the associated cleanup that this work usually entails. Just posted to see if these time estimates are anywhere close to what you guys have worked on. Thanks for the replys. Most of my stuff comes in well under the stuff on this chart.

 

[treeman82]

Greg, if I was the consumer, I don't think that I would want a company working on my property if they had a piece of paper saying that they hold no responsibility for any damage done to concrete. While I am not a stone mason, I do know that if you bust up a nice walkway or patio... it is not cheap to fix. That is also interesting... because concrete is a pretty hard surface especially when compared to SHRUBS which may be under the tree that is on the docket for removal. The way I see it... my clauses make sure that if I accidentally go through a septic tank... because it was either not marked, or improperly marked... I am not held liable. Also it MAY keep my butt out of court in case of a property line dispute or wetlands issues.

The power lines thing... that the customer has to do. They call up whatever the company may be at least a week in advance... power companies are not our friends when it comes to this... "I want my lines dropped on x/x/x and they can be put up again on the x/x/x a crew comes out in the morning... drops the lines... house still has power mind you. If you are done by the end of the day... crew comes back at the end and puts them back up. This is a free service... as long as you do not abuse it (do it every month)

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i have similar experience with the power lines as T82; but they do like the customer to call around here; and will not drop'em if the tree company isn't there at the specified day and time, they might even be early, and not wait around!

All the crane guys around here will demand a sign off on concrete for their cranes sitting on them. But as far as tree damage i see that as my problem.

One time we put logs on either side of a walk, layed a tree across the logs that kept the falling tree way off the walk, transfering the shock to the lawn thru the the logs running like RR rails on either side of the walk. The walk still broke, because one of the logs taking the impact of the tree was on a root that ran under the walk, when the tree hit the log, the force on the root ended up popping the root under the walk up, breaking the cement from the bottom up! Another time i was next to a water meter, had a 3-4' slanted stack of logs to lay the tree on, the tree slammed the stack and slid out away about 4' the stump end never came down, yet there was water everywhere. Luckily it broke on the city side, the ol'city codger said he'd seen this before, the pitching force of the tree pulls on the stump, if the roots grow around a pipe tightly, that force of the hinge ushering/braking the spar to the ground expresses it's force to the stump, though no crushing, impacting damage from tree falling! Was really scratching my head in each case, glad there happened to be seasoned pro's in other specialties around to lend me their experience on both items, or i prolly would never have figured those puaales out. We were responsible for both rather than customer, nice that the pipe broke on the city contract side of the meter though; one less worry.

My liability doesn't cover underground stuff, so i take the hint on that 'invisible' stuff, and rule that out of the deal, always ask where all such things are septic, gas lines, sprinklers etc. One time fell into a septic tank that the owner had forgot about, they had been switched over to city sewer for 20 years, husband had died etc. i kinda had to remain firm on that one as not my fault, almost wanted to ask for extra$ for the amount of time it took to get rear end of 1 ton out of septic tank (empty)! Tow, truck couldn't get back there, 4:1 off neighbors trees pulled by another truck. After emptying weight out of stuck truck and, loading that weight into pulling truck for weight to bite into the soft ground for more bite as we releived wieght from stuck one!

 

[Greg]

I also thought that the concrete thing was a bit much, but he explained that in some areas of town people have had shade tree concrete guys pour a drive or walkway that may only be 2in thick and will break with only a Heavy pick up truck and that is what he wanted protection against. He said that he always tells people that cranes/buckets/dumps, etc.. are his responsibility and he will cover any dameg they cause.

I had the Elec guys come out and drop a line to the house for me on Sat, they are really good here about that. They like 24hrs notice but will also have no problem doing it that day in most cases. Me or one of my guys do phone and cable lines, they are easy.
Greg

 

[treeman82]

Ken and Greg, I had a good experience with the electric company almost 2 years ago... the day I got there to cut the tree the lines were already down. However I was going to work on a Spruce a year prior to that, and each time I would get there the lines would be up still, when I specifically asked that they be down.

Ken, I can think of at least 3 instances in the past 2 years where that septic clause would have helped me.

1) clearing and stumping some land to extend a yard... guy didn't know where the septic was exactly... wound up hitting a pipe with the excavator.

2) Delivered top soil for a customer and backed over the septic, went through the tank.

3) Did a landscaping project at a house where the customer did not know where the septic was. As it turns out, I was driving over it repeatedly with the skid steer.

 

[Joey]

Sometimes with line clearance operations they use these kinds of charts for estimating with the intent that it will average out in the end. Maybe one tree takes longer while another (i.e. flopper) will be way under. This is true sometimes with per span pricing.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

With power in our area, you call the company and ask for the first 9am timeslot. Someone has to be there, either the client or one of us for the temp disconnect to take place. Then we call back with 45 min lead for them to get there to put it back up.

Only once have I ever left a house without power getting back up before night, and that was a minor storm cleanup. The lady called me at 9pm wanting to know when it would be put up, I had given her the WATTS line to WEPCO.....