Ex-Hack's Society

[Bigus Termitius]

Well gang, the time seems to be drawing near for me to move on out on my own.

As I'm contemplating this endeavor that I was hoping to put off till at least next spring, some questions came to mind that I wanted to throw out there.

How many of you all, I know of some, either started out or spent time in the utility clearance sector of the industry?

When did you know it was time to move on and why?

A couple of events have transpired where members of this coop either grossly exaggerated or completely, perhaps maliciously, lied about our performance and actions.

Operations seem all too ready to believe the member's accounts before we even get an opportunity to respond.

Now we are on double secret probation about to loose the contract, which is strange since they've loved us till now. They've already said for some time now that if I move on the company looses the contract cause they don't want anyone else from the company.

So then, if I stay I might lose the contract for no good reason eventually, maybe even my job, and if I go on my own the company looses one of the only contracts keeping them afloat.

Dilemma.

The system forester is beside himself. He's been a great mentor, offered me a job once if his apprentice didn't recover from an accident he had had while felling, and told me the other day while discussing this that I've had the best crews that the coop has ever seen.

He's in a bit of a panic at the thought of losing us, all while he is stuck down in southern Illinois cleaning up the derecho's mess from last week.

I've had no real problems in the last almost two years on this gig, yet all of the sudden it's like a gun to the head.

Is everyone on psychotropics and I'm just blessed enough to be on saw chip aroma therapy?

Too much drama for me...I'm thinking unless they recant, give me some assurance, and consider some of my ideas on surveying member feedback, I'm done.

(Most members love us and how we can get clearance and still leave a tree looking as good as possible, and most of the time almost unnoticeable to the average eye. Which is why I want a survey sent out after ever sub is completed.)

Am I wasting my time caring?

You’d think a coop would understand and back you knowing that you’re the most unpopular uninvited guest that they can possibly send to someone’s house, except maybe someone sent to turn the power off. And that certain member’s may have a little payback in mind, not knowing or caring that you did a really good job, just that you cut their trees.

I’m beginning to wonder. Maybe it is time to move on for so many reasons….

To become an ex “hack” and be invited to do tree work instead of sent by the “awful” power company.

I have work lined up for myself for the weekend so I'll be busy with it. Nothing like working for yourself that puts the stuffy shirts of a power company in perspective, even though I do, or did, care about this job.

Any feedback, encouragement, or advice is welcome, just no virtual butt slapping....thanks.

 

[TreeClimber57]

How many of you all, I know of some, either started out or spent time in the utility clearance sector of the industry?

Guess you could say that about me. Depends on how you define that role, but likley close enough (I did not trim trees around lines much though, we mostly cleared new right away routes in the north - virgin timber).

When did you know it was time to move on and why??

Well, I was getting bored with the routine, and the overall atmosphere was changing. No fun any longer, too much crap.

perhaps maliciously, lied about our performance and actions.

OUCH ! :censored: :censored:

Operations seem all too ready to believe the member's accounts before we even get an opportunity to respond..

Hmm.. by "operations", I assume you mean some level of management here. Either way, not good. Poor way to run a business.

Too much drama for me...I'm thinking unless they recant, give me some assurance, and consider some of my ideas on surveying member feedback, I'm done..

Tough decision to make. But I feel for you here, and I am supporting you.. I think you are on right path. Just ensure this is not emotional and is clearly thought through. The jump is well worth it in my opinion.. but it does involve some sacrifice, hard work, dedicaction and crap (depending on how or where you jump -- your own business will have paperwork that you may not have now).

Am I wasting my time caring?

Not at all.

 

[pdqdl]

I don't understand the entire picture, but it sounds like you are picking up on discontent from management, and don't know why. I would put the problem onto the economy. Businesses are cutting rates and sometimes their own throats trying to stay busy. Your company might have some inside knowledge about the security of the contracts that makes them very nervous.

Don't go out on your own, unless you are certain you are ready to face the insecurity of where the next dollar will come from. Right now that is a vague feeling; when you are the whole show, it is an ever present challenge.

Once you get well established with a reliable customer base, you should get to where there are no worries except the people you hire.

Until you decide to go out on your own, don't worry about the employment situation. You sound more than capable of getting another job, and if your current employer looses the contract, you can probably switch over to the new employer on the same contract without loosing a beat.

 

[teamtree]

If you care that much...you would be a great arborist...on your own or for a residential tree care company.

You are in a tough situation and most guys in line clearance like the work but don't necessarily care about the end product because they know their job is to get clearance...not a specific look and the tree health is not a major concern....or maybe it is steady work....and that is not a put down on them by any means. It is just two totally different scenarios.....in residential tree health comes first.....and in clearance.....you are just getting the clearance and moving on but you are not necessarily dealing with the public as they really have no say and they just have to deal with it.

 

[tree md]

After reading your posts for the past couple of years, I have no doubt that you have what it takes to make it on your own. Only problem is it is a poor market right now. Work is going for cheap. If you have established accounts it helps carry you through, otherwise, you are competing with hacks working dirt cheap right now. If you have others counting on you for a paycheck this would be the worst time to try to go it on your own. If you have savings, equipment and can survive through lean times go for it.

 

[treeseer]

You're comfortable with utility work, so press forth with getting member surveys to base performance on instead of shiny-rumped execs kneejerk reacting to phone calls from persons of vague authority. We need more good utility arborists in the field--"hack" describes low standards, not being in a field where clearance comes first and trees second (but for the good guys, a close second).

I hated doing line clearance while I figured out what my true passion was--optimizing tree value. Then I hated doing residential work for others because my way was always better (or so I thought), and cutting down good trees for bad reasons really hacked me off.

Now I love the freedom to seek out and get the kind of work I want to do, but I still remember the lean times. Self-employment is not for everybody. Look before you leap!

 

[Slvrmple72]

Treeseer, truer words could never be written.
Bigus, I have to wonder if things are slow, money is tight , and instead of letting the underlings know, they are going to get rid of workers the old fashioned way: Lie about/downgrade their work. My buddy works for a small city and right now that is the game they are playing and they have all of the workers at eachother's throats! Best of luck with your decision!-Kevin

 

[BC WetCoast]

Given this economy, and the fact you have a good paying job, I would suffer though the crap (water off a duck's back) and only go out on your own if you really have to. In the mean time, build up your name and skills doing residential work (different mind and skill set) on the side.

You also need to decide what kind of services you will provide should you go out on your own. eg
- removals
- pruning (large) and/or small (fine)
- hedging
- planting
- plant health care

I've worked with people who have quit because someone offered them a 2 month contract, but then they were out of luck because they had nothing to back that contract up. You have to think what you would be doing 6 months from now.

 

[pdqdl]

Even though you might be obliged to take abuse from management, and your livelihood is always subject to someone else's authority, there is a lot to be said for having a regular job.

Self employment is not for everyone. I truly think I would be happier if I just quit hiring "idiot groundmen" (see the recent thread under that title) and let someone else handle all the problems. Regular hours, far less responsibility, simpler job...

If you like independence, and you feel you can manage all aspects of running your own business: go for it.

If you like what you do, and you are just unhappy with your employer: find a better employer.

If you like everything about your job except for recent problems: ride it out, or work hard for a change in the workplace. If it goes south despite your efforts, then you will have no regrets about not having tried.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

Thanks for the encouragement and the fair warnings.

I have a couple of contracts that I'm working on during the weekends that I'd rather just walk into during the week if all goes south. I believe that if I stuck to it, with good weather, I could clear in a couple weeks or so what otherwise takes me four months on the ROW to make. Especially with the weather we’ve had this spring.

My wife was in radio as a D.J. as well as marketing and sales. There is a ton of work out there just wanting to know when I can get to it thanks to her.

I'm no lowballer. LOL. My accountant was very impressed with last year’s earnings.

Last summer and fall I did some emergency removals, as well as some maintenance on apartment and duplex complexes a city block long on two sides with back yards.

I wish I would have taken pictures.

One of the owners was so satisfied that early this spring I did some residential work for him, and some for the manager as well.

On the other hand, I do like ROW work and doing an exceptional job at getting clearance and leaving a healthy, good looking tree, which is in everyone’s best interest. I enjoy the people and the challenge, and I really like the storm work.

I mean, fifteen hours driving into the teeth of an ongoing historic ice storm, tranny lines down or hanging right over the bucket, subs on fire, transformers lighting up the sky like popcorn lightning, trees laying across the interstate, and then hitting the ground running as soon as you make it in to finish up a forty hour day.

That’s no job, that’s an adventure.

If I’m on my own by hurricane season I’ll feel like I’ve been benched! I don’t think I’ll be ready to roll down on my own by then.

At any rate, I’ve been studying all aspects of the industry for almost two years with a more recent concentration on the business end of owning and operating as well as getting the bigger contracts.

Ultimately, I’d like to have a ROW crew or two that can come together on the weekends and get a little overtime with a project here and there. Maybe eventually have a full time residential/ commercial crew as well. Who knows, right now I’m just trying to go where it leads me.

With all of this down time due to the weather, I’d much rather run a company that brings it into the shop and gets everything in order to hit it again as soon as the sun shines, maybe grill something up or go out for lunch and reward the hard work.


As it stands, when it rains, we get nothing, unless I have some maintenance that I can put together to get us by. There is always so much more that can be done, but they freak if it’s not absolutely necessary because it’s a payout they aren’t getting paid for.


I’m running one of the only money making contracts in this company, many others are so far behind that they are losing money big time. If I dump this contract, either by another run in with a lunatic, or just walk away, I’m thinking it could put them in the red and spell the end, or the beginning of it anyway.

Pressure cooker.

Meanwhile, I’m trying to hire a third man to help get us off this ill fated sub and on into a better area. So instead of getting what I was wanting, I’m forced to hire another single twenty something because I can’t in good conscience put another family in the middle of this.

And to top it off, I have a new area manager that doesn’t know the first thing about what we are doing, the owner hired him to shore up his round table of yes men, none of which know enough about this industry to lead anything or anyone, let alone argue a point.

It’s like having a substitute teacher wanting to discuss your last calculus exam, when they can’t so much as articulate algebra.

He made a fool of himself in front of the coop brass a week before all this started going down. He was talking a lot of smack about all these other coops, just repeating what he’d been told. (Which makes me wonder if all of this isn’t somehow also a result of his actions to an extent.) I found out that a couple of other coops that he’s supposed to be managing will not even talk to him now either. Go figure.

Well, that’s plenty of details and drama for now. Well, at least it’s non-fiction anyway.

I know it’s not all on me, or my fault. However, I’m of the mind that I can still make a difference if left to deal with what I can influence the way I know how.

Thanks guys for weighing in. I’ve enjoyed getting to know some of you a little through this board these past couple years, and gathering together your manifold influences and experience to help me along my way.

I’ll keep you posted as to how it goes. Tomorrow I have three removals and however much trimming I can get in on my weekend warrior project. And then on to what could be my last week on the ROW for a long time, if I ever get back.

I won’t lose any sleep, I’ll just have to think up a banner or crest for the Ex-Hack’s Society.

Any suggestions?

 

[Bigus Termitius]

If you care that much...you would be a great arborist...on your own or for a residential tree care company.

Thanks.

.....you are just getting the clearance and moving on but you are not necessarily dealing with the public as they really have no say and they just have to deal with it.

That's part of the issue, being a "member owned" coop they have some say, in that the coop tries to work with them to keep everyone "happy."

This is where my efforts to leave trees looking good with good clearance has really done well, which is why I'm wanting the survey to reflect the many member's that are pleasantly surprised, especially in relation to the last crew that came through.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

You're comfortable with utility work, so press forth with getting member surveys to base performance on instead of shiny-rumped execs kneejerk reacting to phone calls from persons of vague authority. We need more good utility arborists in the field--"hack" describes low standards, not being in a field where clearance comes first and trees second (but for the good guys, a close second).

I hated doing line clearance while I figured out what my true passion was--optimizing tree value. Then I hated doing residential work for others because my way was always better (or so I thought), and cutting down good trees for bad reasons really hacked me off.

Now I love the freedom to seek out and get the kind of work I want to do, but I still remember the lean times. Self-employment is not for everybody. Look before you leap!

Thanks seer.

Hated doing line clearance, eh? Well I'll be.....

I trained a pretty good one this year as well, and I'd just as soon have more to work with, ultimately on my own terms. Not for greed's sake, in fact I want to pay better to get and keep better, but, if for nothing else sometimes, for the sake of avoiding the dysfunction that this outfit I'm with has provided.

I enjoy that freedom you speak of every weekend. I do my best by those row trees during the week, but I can be all about the tree on the weekends.

Honestly, with all the studying, and the back and forth between the two, they have complimented one another fairly well.