felling and the open faced notch

[BewtifulTreeMan]

another silly question from the newbie.

I took an arbormaster felling class, they taught it was best to make your notch big enough so that it would not close before the tree hits the ground. This way the tree would stay attached to the stump for the greatest amount of safety and control.

When would you prefer a convetional notch to an open faced notch?

Perhaps you would like to launch the tree down hill for closer proximity to the chipper and log truck?

 

[a_lopa]

i couldnt care less as long as it hits the ground. any other usless questions

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Mebbe to throw like that, but unless much of a hill not a lot of distance gained?

Mostly for clearance hopping butt over close by plant etc. Or seperation before head contacts anything; don't want a leveraged push back at head before tearoff.

Applicable to climbing/ rigging cuts too; the openness of the faces is the final constraint on the amount of sweep on the hinge. Imperfectly aligned facecuts at the apex of the hinge becoming an inner face, that becomes the working one, overriding the conventional, wide etc. faced hinge. This forces tearoff at earliest time, as inner face is in control, and kerf closes immediately.

The hinge and face are at the pivots of power; that you give mechanical instruction to movement of the spar; it must be crafted to purpose.

Or, something like that;
:alien:

 

[BewtifulTreeMan]

Originally posted by aussie_lopa
i couldnt care less as long as it hits the ground. any other usless questions

if its useless to you, why reply?

 

[BewtifulTreeMan]

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder
Mebbe to throw like that, but unless much of a hill not a lot of distance gained?

Mostly for clearance hopping butt over close by plant etc. Or seperation before head contacts anything; don't want a leveraged push back at head before tearoff.

Applicable to climbing/ rigging cuts too; the openness of the faces is the final constraint on the amount of sweep on the hinge. Imperfectly aligned facecuts at the apex of the hinge becoming an inner face, that becomes the working one, overriding the conventional, wide etc. faced hinge. This forces tearoff at earliest time, as inner face is in control, and kerf closes immediately.

The hinge and face are at the pivots of power; that you give mechanical instruction to movement of the spar; it must be crafted to purpose.

Or, something like that;
:alien:

Thank you spider, but to be prefectly honest, you are going to have to dumb it down a bit for me to completely understand.

I am aware that for climbing/rigging an open faced notch in not appropriate because you want the hinge to break, but my focus is on felling.

would you ever do something like make the hinge close sooner on one side then the other to make the butt hop to one side?

 

[a_lopa]

Originally posted by BewtifulTreeMan
if its useless to you, why reply?

because i can welcome 'newbie'

 

[geofore]

hinge close

It is possible to move the tree side to side by closing the hinge sooner on one side and later on the other but unless you have a lot of experience and practice you don't want to use that when you have to be accrurate in a tight landing zone. Learn to push the tree in the right direction using wedges to move it. Wedges are your friend, learn how to use them. If you are new at treework pratice the fancy (dutchman) hinges on trees where you have a landing zone with nothing to hit but the ground.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Originally posted by BewtifulTreeMan
I am aware that for climbing/rigging an open faced notch in not appropriate because you want the hinge to break, but my focus is on felling.

would you ever do something like make the hinge close sooner on one side then the other to make the butt hop to one side?

i use open face for wide control sweep in rigging or throwing branches around on hinge.

As Geofore says; clsoing early in full or part should be an advanced exercise after perfecting making perfectly meeting faces that don't 'dutch'/close early.

If you did close early, you would want to do it on the push from/sidelean side. That way the sidelean etc. would be pushed more center target by the early closing side, as the opposite side of the hinge was still pulling(doing backwards would throw away from target, towards sidelean). Usually the hinge pull, then face push happen sequentially, the face push taking over for the hinge pull. When they are combined with this technique, the sum of their side correction against sidelean is greater than the each one working one at a time (pull then push) in the sequential format.

i would recomend that this info be saved for later; and just used presently to drive in deeper the importance of crafting faces patiently and correctly. They make the differance, slight changes altering the mechanics.

For:

Originally posted by Spydy
"The hinge and face are at the pivots of power; that you give mechanical instruction to movement of the spar; it must be crafted to purpose."

 

[matthias]

[iYou'll learn firsthand about carpel tunnel, tennis elbow, worn out shoulder sockets, hearing loss, cancer etc, etc, etc. [/B]

You make it sound so glamourous Mike. After four years I already got the carpal tunnel and the worn rotator cuff. I'm not so interested in that last one though.

 

[Derek]

Hi Mike & Matthias.....Oh and you

I think im winning the "tennis elbow match" this week!

But to indulge you a little further...

I beleive for the trees over here, hardwoods cut a 45* scarf, softwoods cut at 35*..If you want to keep the timber, cut a "humboltscarf" an upper angelled cut from as close to the ground as you can get it.

If your keeping the timber you need to make sure the pull fibers stay in the trunk, not on the stump.

Thats gunna depend on how high you set your backcut..
Different timbers do different things. So does dry standing wood.

A few rules of thumb I tell my newbies is that if under a meter (3 feet) round start your backcut 50mm ( 2') above your horizontial line.. for every 500mm round lift that by 50mm ...

This tree was 6 meters round so I started my back cut at 245mm above scarff..( at least a bloody good guess!)

UNLESS your pulling or pushing the top 1/3 of a tree with a rope or machine, then (only IMO) put your back cut in BELOW the horizontal line, this will help to reduce the risk of barberchairing..

I would hate to see Faibo with huge splinters in his abbs!

Start with simple things like "uneven holding wood" ( we callem "twistcuts") you would be suprized how much a tree will move with the stronger wood breaking last..

Not as suprized as to how much movment the top of a tree can get with wedges..I can move most trees a meter or 2 at the top with wedges, I love them...See the belt!

Finally in my littel "directional felling sermon" ..

If the tree doesent look like it will go with a wedge, ie cant move it a metre. because the tree is to small and you can't bang it in enough.
Cut a small scarf to the direction of fall, instead of a regular backcut, cut the side at right angles to the fall almost 2/3 through but still leave the normal holding wood.
Then you can drive a wedge in till its a fair way through, while making your release cut 12mm (1/2") below first backcut....

Follow me? I could draw you a pic

Good luck!!Derek..

 

[ROLLACOSTA]

Derek to me your pic looks just like a standerd felling cut we/i use all the time put me out of my misery am i correct??....


one differance i have noticed between us Brits and you Americans is the way you pay so much attention to your falling cuts 99.99 Brits only know or have been trained in the standerd tecnique,which imo is such a shame...i guess this is because we have a only got a very small logging industry left

 

[jamie]

aye

i cut a gob, and then either back or bore cut it.

taa daa.

if it has a back lean i was taught to start low and sweep up on the back cut, get half way insert breaking bar, and then continue the felling cut above the first half.... dont know what its called but thats the only other cut i know....never mind all the names.

wide gob holds the hinge, shallow gob snaps teh hinge.... thats the extent of my knowledge

jamie

 

[Derek]

Hi Rolla ...Yes pretty boring standered tips for our "ugly shrub boy

But hes gotta start somewhere...Next week we can talk about stepcuts!

BTW 99.99% of readers know im from AUSTRAILA!!!
But then I dident know you guys had any logging?

 

[Gord]

here is an excellent thread on notches. i'd pay particular attention to netree's posts.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16149