felling trees that are larger then twice bar length

[Yeahman]

hi, i work in the amenity arb industry here in oz. just today i got the job of felling a large euc in 2 weeks time. some time to mentally prepare.

as the title suggests the trunk diameter is larger then twice the length of my 460 bar. this will also be the largest tree i have felled!

the method that i am considering is to put in as large a scarf as possible, then do a plunge cut into the face of the scarf. then put in my back cut at the same height or just below the plunge.

the tree is leaning (not significantly) in the fall direction. i will be putting on a pull rope running it through pulleys for a mechanical advantage and maybe hooking it up to a vehicle? will be using wedges and thinking about using a bottle jack to help it on it's fall. i've done some research on jacking never done it though or seen it done. not even sure it's neccessary for this tree, just want to take the jack and know how to use it if on the day i decide it's needed.

Any comments or sugestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[smokechase II]

thoughts

The pull rope with mechanical advantage could get you in trouble.
If you pull too hard on that rope it could sponsor a barber chair.

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Wedges and rope together are fine. (Again, together they could get you that barber chair). If you are in a situation where you feel that there is enough lean to where you need a jack too I'd strongly recommend bringing in a local bonded pro. This seems especially appropriate with the "this will also be the largest tree I have felled!" statement. By the way; Are you bonded?

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Make your face cut opening wide. More of an open face, so that you can get your saw powerhead in further. Also, make your scarf as deep as you can safely for the same reason. Check out the "Saw techniques and cutting/felling safety" recent thread, posts 162 and 163 for some other thoughts on face depth. The face center bore can be a great safety cut.

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The way to get good at match cutting is to practice on tall stumps. This applies to both the scarf and back-cut.

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If there is NO obstacle to hit, (hillside or rocks or standing trees or ________), or a limb configuration that could force the tree back over the stump. Nothing. Then stump shot is not needed. You could then have your back-cut at the same height as the apex of the face. That is where they work together the most efficiently. This might help if you had trouble with completing the back-cut. It could be fairly important if it kept you from pulling on that rope in frustration.

All the Best

 

[Burvol]

Well, if you got a decent lean and are not worried about that, make your under cut like normal, then start your back cut working your saw around to the far corner until you saw it all up to the amount of hinge wood you want on the corner, and come back to your side. Let the saw cut, don't force it, just keep her pegged and you will be fine, sounds like it's not too hairy.

 

[clearance]

Good post by Smoke. I would like to dispute the rope talk. I have pulled over many trees with ropes and steel cables. There is little choice sometimes, with no excavator around, and I hate lowering branches if I don't have to. The key is to apply the force with care, the faller is to be obeyed at all times. I put in the undercut, have some tension applied, when I see the top start to move, I stop it. Then I put in the backcut, I back it up with wedges, if I have to start pounding wedges cause my saw is getting pinched I have a bit more pressure applied. When I have completed my cut I signal for the pull, works great, the key is smooth and controlled. What you have to be carefull of is the person pulling gettting carried away and yarding on it, they have to be told exactly what to do.

 

[Burvol]

So why do you guys keep insisiting on putting a machine or rope on it? I thought he said it HAD a lean to it. I'd just wedge it for good measure.

 

[clearance]

So why do you guys keep insisiting on putting a machine or rope on it? I thought he said it HAD a lean to it. I'd just wedge it for good measure.

I didn't insist on anything, just talking generally about pulling trees. He says the tree has a favorable lean, but not significantly. Unles the tree has a good and obviuos lean, you have to put a wedge or two in the backcut. Leans can be misjudged, trees can sit back, been there.

 

[Burvol]

Ya, I know what you mean. Cutting evergreens in a stand is a lot different than deciduous stuff. There is a lot of lead "hanger" or branches and trunks that can sway a lean for sure.

 

[SWE#Kipp]

Heres a pic of how it's done I'm sure you guys know this, but I thought I post anyway

 

[Yeahman]

thanks

good stuff thanks for your replies.

Yeah jacking is out! what does "bonded" mean?

the tree is bout 8m from a house, leaning slightly in the opposite direction (fell direction). like to use a rope just as a precaution. if the wind picks up or the wedges arent enough i can always get it moving with the rope. Customers feel safer too, when they see that giant tree with a little tiny rope pulling it away from their house.

with the plunge cut in the scarf face. what is the maximum allowable distance between the plunge cut the back cut? vertical height i mean. one or two inches? going to practice this method on smaller trees before the big day.

Will be ok!

Any key things that can wrong when using this method?

ok thanks again!

 

[smokechase II]

"What is the maximum allowable vertical distance between the plunge cut the back cut?

That is going to vary. 1" or under on a 36" tree with a light lean working in your favor should be fine. It should be no problem. Where this miss matching gets to be a problem is on wedging over larger trees against their lean. If you got anything holding up the tree, you get to spend more time at the stump and more energy on wedging. Perhaps recutting could extend your day even more. {Dead or drought trees will have this vertical holding wood snap a little bit quicker.}

Suggestion on how to get it that close is to have a guy off to the side directing you with his hand held flat and he moves it up or down and maybe does a pitch and yaw thing too. He can see how close you are to matching the cuts much better than the cutter.

If by yourself, not a good idea, I suppose you could place just a spare bar in the face center bore to help give you a better feel. Then after the backcut is in far enough to support the saw, but not directionally at that spare bar. Step back and check out your cuts for level.

 

[Timberhauler]

Just curious here,but how big around are the trees,and how big is the bar you are planning on using...Is getting a longer bar out of the question?That way at least you have that part of it covered,and can better concentrate on getting the trees to fall your way.

 

[Yeahman]

Bar length is 20" tree diameter is under 60". Yeah thought maybe to hire or borrow a larger saw. good idea i might make some enquiries and find out the maximum length bar that a sthil 460 can handle.

Thanks Smokechase i appreciate your words of Wisdom.

 

[Ianab]

make some enquiries and find out the maximum length bar that a sthil 460 can handle.

Should handle a 28" no problem, and longer if you used skip chain.

Cheers

Ian

 

[soutz]

keep it simple mate. yes put up a bull rope,have everything set,ie winch etc. If you dont need the winch and wedges will do thats fine but very hard to get a rope into a tree after the back cut has been made. take your time set the scarf up nice and level. bigger bar would be great but if no go then a bore cut as shown above will work fine.get a good set of wedges,but you have stated the tree has a good lean. eucs are a curse in a breeze,(barberchair city!!!) early am best for felling.big trees can be deceptive for their ability to move very fast while looking very slow,eucs are also good talkers. listen to what the tree is saying when it is releasing tension and starting to move out. Also mark a point on the hinge where you will not go past. I have used this method when teaching felling of back or side leaners,. it stops you from cutting the hinge right through and every thing going crazy and wild, the rush from big trees is awesome but must be tempered with a cold truth.the bigger the tree the more damage it can do to you or property. know your escape route and once the tree is moving exit stage left.after its down look at your cut and even post it here. much can be learned from the aftermarth. sharp saw.be safe good luck.