FEMA policy

[murphy4trees]

After Isabel slammed Virginia, FEMA was paying, I believe, $7/cubic yard of tree debris, picked up off the side of the road and hauled to the dump, where they had big tub grinders making mulch... Everything was hauled rather than chipped at curbside... What that looked like is every old rusty dump truck and trailer from Alabama was brought in and built up to 13' with plywood... Most of it was loaded by hand.... That seemed like a big waste of money.... A lot of the pick up was along wooded areas that could have been chipped right into... No hauling needed...
I did see a few Prentice grapple loaders and backhoes but still the whole clean up seemed very inefficient and a waste of money.
I heard there are 10 big outfits that do most of FEMA's storm clean up... Seems like someone must be getting paid off to have such an inefficient system in place when modern chippers can eat huge amounts of brush...
I talked to one guy from Florida who offerred to bring in his big chippers but they just wanted the prentice loaders... Never did ask if he was working by the hour or the yard.. Maybe they go by the yard to make measuring the work easy.. Perhaps they don't go hourly because that would encourage slower work...
Anybody know the answer here???

 

[MasterBlaster]

Maybe they think a chipper would be a maintainance/liability problem?

One guy around here has sold his chipper and gone completely over to a Prentice loader.

I think thats kinda nuts, but he says it works for him.

 

[Baumkletter]

Daniel,

Anytime you’re dealing with the government, there’s always that chance that something could be going on under the table. I’m not saying this is what’s happening where you are; I’m just saying it does happen.

I work in the capitol city of our state, and I’ve seen tree companies that have no business trimming trees on state property, or any property for that matter. A few years ago, one of these yahoos topped every tree around a state owned building. A bunch of local Arborists got together and did a ‘letter to the editor” blitz in our local newspaper. I have never seen that tree company back on state property, but I’ve seen others that are just as worse.

The thing is, these tree companies are not from around here, there from small towns 50 to 60 miles away. Apparently, they’re kicking into there local legislators campaign fund, and boom, they got a no-bid state contract.

Unfortunately, this is the real world, and this is how things work.

-Mike

 

[Abbershay]

There was a huge storm in Nd.. THey used grapple loaders the people had the brush piled on the curb. a big payloader came along and pushed the brush into a big pile next the the loader and the he loaded it into all the trucks ... it worked fast and slick.

They also had some crews working with chippers But there was no comparison to what those loaders could accomplish.

I was working on a flood one year , fema was there and they were paying for a 3/4 plywood dyke to go around the city. I think it was about 2.5 miles... the people worked fast and got the thing built. some people prayed and the water was supposed to go way over the dyke. The wind changed and held the water back . praise God.... THe water never even touched the plywood.

However if the water would have even touched the wood even for a short period of time all that wood would have had to go to the dump. wasted.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by murphy4trees
.. Maybe they go by the yard to make measuring the work easy.. Perhaps they don't go hourly because that would encourage slower work...
Anybody know the answer here???

In Durham NC after the ice sotrm, the city paid crews by the hour. FEMA refused to cover that at first, because they want to pay by the ton. After a year of haggling, Durham finally got paid.

Pay by the yard or ton, and too much gets cut. I doubt crews would work much slower if they got paid by the hour; they aren't too fast to start with, and when storms hit there's so much work there';s little need to milk it by slowing down. Also there's so much pressure from the public to get it done, slowing down would not be tolerated much.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I was seeing/thinking much the same as Dan.

There was so much "need" to get it done that ramshackel trailers were being fab'd up to haul to the dump sight. everyone and thier little brother was driving these things. they would have thoer load value on the side so they could get their due for each drive through. Not very efficient.

kind dangerous too. Chip on sight in many ROW areas would have been much better, all around.

 

[treeslayer]

My guess is FEMA wanted "CONTROL" over the process and having all the debris brought to them at their temp. dump spots was their rabid idea. I was in Williamsburg last weekend, and its still going on.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Time for us to barage our congress people. I did it this morning.

They all have that PITA webmail 'fill in the form" type comunications. I fianly figured out how to use the "form manager" utility on my browser. Kinda neat. One click and it is all done.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I got a form letter from my congresman in regards to my concerns with FEMA disposal policy.

He has forwarded it to FEMA, requesting a responce and will send me a copy for comment.

Has anyone else contacted their rep's?

 

[coffeecraver]

I live in Virginia, and work for the City of Richmond.
The brush that was chipped was hauled out in tractor trailors that
carry 95 cu.yds or more. There was a lot of money made with
Mulch.
That is why I belive it was done at sites rather than curb side.
The City is now going to have the debris removed from private property.When a citizen signs up to get it done ,he must qualify
by the money he makes.

It too will be hauled to the sites where it can be ground into mulch and disposed of.

 

[Yellowdog]

Seems like whole tree chippers with grapple loaders would be the way to go on short notice and tight spots. I personally can chip a pile of debris faster (for the most part) than it would be to load a truck by hand! Also, hasn't anyone heard of using grapples buckets on Bobcats to speed up loading? The big ones can run circles around a backhoe for that type of work. I do it all the time and it is efficient. Seems like someone was getting a kickback or making something off the mulch. More than likely the company with the contract set up the disposal process and possibly paid by the trailer load to get that stuff brought to a central location. If every rusty truck made a few bucks per load, it might have been cheaper to go that route than send out crews that get paid more per hour. Dunno. the government around here does odd things with brush. Here, after our great flood of 2002, stuff was left to sit forever then trucked to central locations, loaded in dumpters or burned. I didn't see a single tub grinder or horizontal grinder anywhere in this county and we were the epicenter of the flood. Makes you think. Ineffciency or ulterior motive?

 

[kowens]

FEMA hires private contractors that thay contract out by the yard
this contractor in turn hires people to haul for 5 dollars a yard
now this person will build a tralor lets say 10 yards and hire a
couple guys for min wages thay load the limbs butt end down
takes them 10 min to load the dump is within 10 blks.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

What Murphy and Owens describe is what I saw, everyone and their little brother out there in rickety high side trailers.

Some areas you could not chip on site, but there were many ROW's where there was room.

Heck, if they want to laod piles of chip into dumps and pay by the load for that, it's more economical.

If all Richmond allowed was qualified carriers then I have no problem. What I saw was a one size fits all solution that was more Keystone Cops meets Sanford&Son then a professional operation.