Fireplace not drawing properly?

[joecoin]

Bought a house built in 1993 last year. Has a fireplace that I'm having a hard time with.

Around 30% of the time, it will put smoke back out into the room it is in. Not great clouds but enough to be irritating.

It's a prefabbed unit (don't have the mfg name in front of me but can provide it if needed). Chimney is 6" stove pipe, straight shot probably 40 to 45 feet , well clear of the roof. Fireplace has an external fresh air inlet that can be closed.

There are two plates hanging down from above inside that I would call deflectors for lack of knowing what they really are called. It seems as though if a log is towards the front on the grate that it will put more smoke out into the room . Or if a log is at an angle (not horizontal).

I've tried opening a window across the room to ensure positive pressure, sometimes seems to help, sometime does not.

I might be expecting too much out of this unit. I have melted one of the supports on the grate. So, I'm thinking I need to install some other form of wood heat.

I've been burning wood in a free standing stove for about 35 years in my old house, so I know how to make fires, at least in a stove.

What I'd like to learn is, what sort of insert will give me the best heat? Can an insert produce as efficiently as a stove? Any other help or suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Acornhill]

I will start by saying this, if possible install a stove with fan that sits out of the fireplace as much as possible. As for your current fireplace I would seriously check your drafting situation? Do the paper test, to check if the flue is pulling the smoke up


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[trains]

You mention the plates above the fire, they are usually secondary burn areas, or create air wash to enable better heat, cleaner front door glass etc, and some designs are better than others.
Has any ash, or chimney deposits fallen down and blocked up the air passages on those plates, thus reducing draw.
had a mates fireplace that the top plate was not removable, and you had to put a small 3/8 hose on the end of the vacum to clean it and enable it to draw again.

 

[joecoin]

I will start by saying this, if possible install a stove with fan that sits out of the fireplace as much as possible. As for your current fireplace I would seriously check your drafting situation? Do the paper test, to check if the flue is pulling the smoke up


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Yes, when I hold the paper up near the open pipe it always draws fine.

What is the advantage of having a stove that sits out of the fireplace as much as possible?

Thanks.

 

[joecoin]

You mention the plates above the fire, they are usually secondary burn areas, or create air wash to enable better heat, cleaner front door glass etc, and some designs are better than others.
Has any ash, or chimney deposits fallen down and blocked up the air passages on those plates, thus reducing draw.
had a mates fireplace that the top plate was not removable, and you had to put a small 3/8 hose on the end of the vacum to clean it and enable it to draw again.

These plates have no holes in them. I figure they are there to keep the smoke towards the rear of the fireplace. But if I get a log out on the front of the grate, some smoke goes out into the room.

 

[Acornhill]

Yes, when I hold the paper up near the open pipe it always draws fine.

What is the advantage of having a stove that sits out of the fireplace as much as possible?

Thanks.

When the stove sits out you gain more heat from all sides of the stove,inserts loose lots of heat being set back in the firebox . A freestanding stove is best


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[trains]

These plates have no holes in them. I figure they are there to keep the smoke towards the rear of the fireplace. But if I get a log out on the front of the grate, some smoke goes out into the room.

Ahh, my mistake, your talking about an open fire with grate.

 

[NSMaple1]

These 'plates' sound like a damper to me, that you would close when not using the fireplace to stop heat from going up the chimney. But I could be wrong.

And that is a huge amount of chimney, it should suck like nobodys business. I would try building a small fire at the back of the box, but before you light it stick a loose wad of newspaper on top of it under the flu opening & light that first. Then light your fire.

If you are using this for heat, you won't get much out of it. Those can be like negative efficiency sometimes, not only do they send most of the heat from the wood up the flue but also a lot of the heat from the room. We have one, we only use it a few times a year (like less than 5), only for ambiance - usually around the holidays.

Pics would likely help show us more info...

 

[greenskeeper]

Sounds like the "plates" are a damper that isn't fully open?

 

[Mustang71]

I have taken a few wood burning inserts out and they are not built much different than a gas insert fire place of the same age. Idk that I would try to heat with one I think they are more for looks they are thin metal. Is it possible that you have to much wood in there and because they allow a ton of combustion air it is letting smoke into the house because it doesn't have a big enough chimney to exhaust all the smoke? Normal masonary fire places have like a 12x12 tile. I dont think that a 6" pipe can exhaust enough to keep up with the wood burning with that much combustion air, it might pull 80 percent of it out and the rest goes into the house. A wood stove limits that combustion air to a minimum needed to burn wood and a 6" chimney has enough draw for that.

The new wood burning inserts are lined with fire brick and have a bigger chimney and probably work a lot better for heat. They do make wood stove inserts as well but I think they are for masonary chimneys.

 

[woodfarmer]

As usual, pictures would help

 

[woodfarmer]

As usual, pictures would help

 

[joecoin]

Thanks for the replies. I'm ashamed I have not posted pics yet, but I will try to get some up.

The plates are not the damper, there is a damper on a handle that works properly, the plates are fixed.

I think you guys are correct, I'm expecting too much out of this thing. I knew it was inefficient, just not sure how bad. The only plus is it has a fairly large hearth and mantle made of stone, which has good heat retaining properties.

I believe I'll start looking for a stove insert, if there is such a thing.

 

[Mustang71]

I have put a napoleon stove insert in and have seen a few in houses they look like the front of a wood stove sticking out of the fire place

 

[Natster]

My neighbor has a fireplace. When the chimney is cold, it has a plug of cold air in it. Try as he will, it smokes. During starting.
Procedure to start is:
Go outside. Open ash door. Stuff a couple wads of wedded newspaper inside. Light, and close ash door. Wait till smoke comes out top. Now, go inside, and light fire.
It's a way to push the "cold plug" out.
For your application, separate 5 sheets of newspaper, wad, and place on top of your set fire. This will push the plug out.
Just a possible idea.
N

 

[joecoin]

My neighbor has a fireplace. When the chimney is cold, it has a plug of cold air in it. Try as he will, it smokes. During starting.
Procedure to start is:
Go outside. Open ash door. Stuff a couple wads of wedded newspaper inside. Light, and close ash door. Wait till smoke comes out top. Now, go inside, and light fire.
It's a way to push the "cold plug" out.
For your application, separate 5 sheets of newspaper, wad, and place on top of your set fire. This will push the plug out.
Just a possible idea.
N

I have done the old "light paper, hold up into flue and let it burn" trick. Problem is, this thing will ofttimes smoke when the fire has been burning for hours.

With the wood-burner at the other house I had trouble with downdrafts before I extended the pipe and learned to crack a window on the opposite wall.

This is not a down draft issue.

 

[Natster]

What about mud bird nest? Swallows and their kin, sometimes build these. If that's your problem, it'll have to be knocked out. Have you tried a chimney brush? You can buy just the brush, and using a rope, pull it on a one way trip. However, it can get stuck... So, 2 people, and a rope tied at each side, you can pull both ways. Fiberglass rod kits are available. That's how I do it. Just be sure you don't have a clogged chimney, before you get drastic. Just my ideas. Take em or leave em.
N

 

[DSW]

6" or not I've never had a drafting issue with a straight chimney assuming the wood is dry. Cresote can clog anything and change that. Air shouldn't affect that, a stove can pull in all the air it wants with an open door and that never affects them if they're running right to begin with.

I do agree with Acorn, a free standing stove, as far away from the wall as possible would be the most efficient.

Even if the fireplace was running perfectly it won't compare to a stove.

 

[Mustang71]

I'm just thinking hes got the thing piled full of wood like a stove and there's not enough volume in a 6 inch pipe to exhaust it all while it burns. Sometimes you need a bigger flue pipe to accommodate more btu. We deal with that on natural draft dunkirk boilers all the time the more btu the bigger the flue pipe is other wise it can spill out the front of the boiler and not all go up the chimney.

Same thing with chimney liner sizing they are all sized to btu and height.

 

[joecoin]

What about mud bird nest? Swallows and their kin, sometimes build these. If that's your problem, it'll have to be knocked out. Have you tried a chimney brush? You can buy just the brush, and using a rope, pull it on a one way trip. However, it can get stuck... So, 2 people, and a rope tied at each side, you can pull both ways. Fiberglass rod kits are available. That's how I do it. Just be sure you don't have a clogged chimney, before you get drastic. Just my ideas. Take em or leave em.
N

6" or not I've never had a drafting issue with a straight chimney assuming the wood is dry. Cresote can clog anything and change that. Air shouldn't affect that, a stove can pull in all the air it wants with an open door and that never affects them if they're running right to begin with.

I do agree with Acorn, a free standing stove, as far away from the wall as possible would be the most efficient.

Even if the fireplace was running perfectly it won't compare to a stove.

Chimney is nice and clean, it works fine more often than not. But when it does not draw correctly it's a real @#$%^&*().

Thanks for the responses. It does appear I'm going to need a stove.