Forest Fire jihad

[rmihalek]

I saw this report online when the Australian wildfired were being discussed:

US intelligence channels earlier this year identified a website calling on Muslims in Australia, the US, Europe and Russia to "start forest fires", claiming "scholars have justified chopping down and burning the infidels' forests when they do the same to our lands".

The website, posted by a group called the Al-Ikhlas Islamic Network, argues in Arabic that lighting fires is an effective form of terrorism justified in Islamic law under the "eye for an eye" doctrine.

The posting — which instructs jihadis to remember "forest jihad" in summer months — says fires cause economic damage and pollution, tie up security agencies and can take months to extinguish so that "this terror will haunt them for an extended period of time".

 

[HolmenTree]

Forest fire terrorism is not a new thing. During WW2 Japan sent hundreds of weather balloons to North America loaded with chemicals that instantly ignite and start forest fires. Their plan was to start massive forest fires putting able bodied people to fight them, drawing manpower from the war effort. I can't find the writeup at the moment but one of those balloons landed here in northern Manitoba. A couple landed around Portland Oregon and Seattle, Washington and 3 people there were killed trying to put them out. The Japenese attack was unsuccessful though, it was in the dead of winter and the rainy season in the PNW.

 

[Curbside]

There was a show on Discovery Channel on those balloons.

 

[Curbside]

Kinda interesting


Fire balloon
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The term "fire balloon" can mean a small unmanned hot air balloon for festivities; this is also called a sky lantern.

Shot down fire balloon reinflated by Americans in CaliforniaA fire balloon or balloon bomb (Japanese 風船爆弾 fūsen bakudan, lit. "balloon bomb") was an experimental weapon launched by Japan during World War II. A hydrogen balloon with a load varying from a 12 kg (26 lb) incendiary to one 15 kg (33 lb) antipersonnel bomb and four 5 kg (11 lb) incendiary devices attached, they were designed as a cheap weapon intended to make use of the jet stream over the Pacific Ocean and wreak havoc on Canadian and American cities, forests, and farmland.

The balloons were relatively ineffective as weapons, and one of the few Attacks on North America during World War II.

Between November 1944 and April 1945 Japan launched over 9,000 fire balloons. About 300 balloon bombs were found or observed in North America, causing six deaths and a small amount of damage.[1]

It remains likely that more balloon bombs lie unexploded in the forests, deserts, lakes and mountains of North America.

 

[smokechase II]

Ballons from Japan

"Forest fire terrorism is not a new thing. During WW2 Japan sent hundreds of weather balloons to North America loaded with chemicals that instantly ignite and start forest fires. Their plan was to start massive forest fires putting able bodied people to fight them, drawing manpower from the war effort. I can't find the writeup at the moment but one of those balloons landed here in northern Manitoba. A couple landed around Portland Oregon and Seattle, Washington and 3 people there were killed trying to put them out. The Japenese attack was unsuccessful though, it was in the dead of winter and the rainy season in the PNW."

===========

minor correction.

One of the bombs landed unexploded near Klamath Falls, (south central part of Oregon), and was discovered by a Sunday School group. They were looking it over and their physically contacting it probably was what caused it to explode and kill the five or six people there. This was the one Japanese attack on the mainland US that killed anyone.

(That we know of.)

Talking to two Forest Service Employees from Northern Cal a couple years ago, they said they had at least one fire (may have been more than one) that had burned over 50,000 acres total in the early-mid 1940's. What was interesting is that their forest had fire records for that period but no mention of that fire(s). To them it appeared that the US at that time didn't want to encourage the enemy with reports of success.
There is some other indication of this secret keeping regarding the balloon bombs.

----------

(Note: Of course fires in timber can usually be easily dated by the tree rings. Most amateurs would be able to date a fire from the 1940's to within one year + or -. An expert would be able to look under a microscope and say what time of the year based on spring/summer wood.)

 

[smokechase II]

terror

"The posting — which instructs jihadis to remember "forest jihad" in summer months — says fires cause economic damage and pollution, tie up security agencies and can take months to extinguish so that "this terror will haunt them for an extended period of time".

===================

Many of us have wondered when.

In the forests of the Western US there is huge risk.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[2dogs]

"Forest fire terrorism is not a new thing. During WW2 Japan sent hundreds of weather balloons to North America loaded with chemicals that instantly ignite and start forest fires. Their plan was to start massive forest fires putting able bodied people to fight them, drawing manpower from the war effort. I can't find the writeup at the moment but one of those balloons landed here in northern Manitoba. A couple landed around Portland Oregon and Seattle, Washington and 3 people there were killed trying to put them out. The Japenese attack was unsuccessful though, it was in the dead of winter and the rainy season in the PNW."

===========

minor correction.

One of the bombs landed unexploded near Klamath Falls, (south central part of Oregon), and was discovered by a Sunday School group. They were looking it over and their physically contacting it probably was what caused it to explode and kill the five or six people there. This was the one Japanese attack on the mainland US that killed anyone.

(That we know of.)

Talking to two Forest Service Employees from Northern Cal a couple years ago, they said they had at least one fire (may have been more than one) that had burned over 50,000 acres total in the early-mid 1940's. What was interesting is that their forest had fire records for that period but no mention of that fire(s). To them it appeared that the US at that time didn't want to encourage the enemy with reports of success.
There is some other indication of this secret keeping regarding the balloon bombs.

----------

(Note: Of course fires in timber can usually be easily dated by the tree rings. Most amateurs would be able to date a fire from the 1940's to within one year + or -. An expert would be able to look under a microscope and say what time of the year based on spring/summer wood.)

I can't rep ya but kudos for knowing your history of WWII.

 

[rmihalek]

Forest fire terrorism is not a new thing. During WW2 Japan sent hundreds of weather balloons to North America loaded with chemicals that instantly ignite and start forest fires.

Japan (a defined enemy) floating balloons over the ocean is not terrorism. It was a warfare tactic.

By bringing up this story about forest fire jihad, I was making specific reference to islamic fundamentalists (perhaps tens of thousands of whom are currently in our country) setting fire to our forests. Maybe 500 or 1000 simultaneous forest fires? This would be FAR more devasting than some balloons floating over the Pacific.

The issue is: could we stop this from happening?

 

[Curbside]

If it was a planned operation to start forest fires and enough people were involved I don't think it would be possible to stop them. Just think even if it was a small handful of people setting fires it would nearly be impossible to stop unless some highway trooper happened to stop them for speeding and noticed a bunch of fire starting materials. It only takes a small fire and some wind to make a huge fire. With a little planning and doing them at the right time of the year it could be trouble.

 

[HolmenTree]

Japan (a defined enemy) floating balloons over the ocean is not terrorism. It was a warfare tactic.

By bringing up this story about forest fire jihad, I was making specific reference to islamic fundamentalists (perhaps tens of thousands of whom are currently in our country) setting fire to our forests. Maybe 500 or 1000 simultaneous forest fires? This would be FAR more devasting than some balloons floating over the Pacific.

The issue is: could we stop this from happening?

I think your a little paranoid. Pointing fingers at Islamic fundamentalists. I call it "forest fire make work projects". Here in Northern Manitoba and other places across Canada, a fire is started and the whole reservation is evacuated. Send the women and children into the city, put up in a hotel,fed and looked after, paid by the government. The fire starter and his buddies get to ride in helicopters, fresh food regularly shipped in and get a good wage on top of that.Fire starter gets a sore back on the fire line, goes on workers comp and joins the family in the city. Good way for everyone to spend the summer.

 

[smokechase II]

Healthy paranoia

"I think you’re a little paranoid. Pointing fingers at Islamic fundamentalists. I call it "forest fire make work projects". Here in Northern Manitoba and other places across Canada,........"

Willard:
Canada doesn't attract the attention the US does.

"US intelligence channels earlier this year identified a website calling on Muslims in Australia, the US, Europe and Russia to "start forest fires",........"

Plus we are more accessible then much of Manitoba.
(Granted, we certainly have had a burn to earn program here too. However, generally it has not been on a destroy all the forests level. Usually it has been as far as one bottom feeder can get out and back.)

=============

I don't have any solutions for a US effort by forest arson terrorists but I would not rule them out this casually.

For years I have heard the following synopsis on the fireline:
'Man if they ever figure it out, they'd kick our a__.'

 

[smokechase II]

Forest arson

"If it was a planned operation to start forest fires and enough people were involved I don't think it would be possible to stop them..........."

=================

Concur.

I will not discuss tactical techniques but if an enemy was willing to sacrifice individuals, (suicide), to be arsonists in an area as large as the Western US it would be impossible to stop them.

Not just during the first attack but even the follow up attacks. Even after many National Forests/Parks/State and Private lands have been closed.

 

[HolmenTree]

Excellent posts smoke.
I think Canada might be on that Muslim extremist list too. We have troops in Afghanistan and are giving the Taliban the fight of their lives.
And yes the cost of fighting fires is high. Last summer our Manitoba government spent a million dollars a day for weeks on end fighting fires, and they weren't that big of forest fires either,biggest we had was in 1989.

 

[tree md]

I saw this report online when the Australian wildfired were being discussed:

US intelligence channels earlier this year identified a website calling on Muslims in Australia, the US, Europe and Russia to "start forest fires", claiming "scholars have justified chopping down and burning the infidels' forests when they do the same to our lands".

The website, posted by a group called the Al-Ikhlas Islamic Network, argues in Arabic that lighting fires is an effective form of terrorism justified in Islamic law under the "eye for an eye" doctrine.

The posting — which instructs jihadis to remember "forest jihad" in summer months — says fires cause economic damage and pollution, tie up security agencies and can take months to extinguish so that "this terror will haunt them for an extended period of time".

Well I'm sure the day after they do that here OK and TX will have designated a hunting season for them in this part of the country. Wonder how they would taste... My guess is they would taste kinda like chicken...

 

[HolmenTree]

Well I'm sure the day after they do that here OK and TX will have designated a hunting season for them in this part of the country. Wonder how they would taste... My guess is they would taste kinda like chicken...

......... with a little curry.

 

[Labman]

Some things are very difficult for a free and open society to protect its self from.

 

[smokechase II]

Field trials

"Well I'm sure the day after they do that here OK and TX will have designated a hunting season for them in this part of the country."

We had an Israeli Forestry tour at the Redmond Air Center maybe late 1980's.
They were getting the full deal all over.
I was following them around as I had visited Israel.
They were asked what they did with arsons.
One of them responded fairly coldly, "We kill them".
There was no follow up question to clarify.

============

The forests of Israel are old stands of smallish juniper scattered around and another six million trees planted to mark the victims of the holocaust. They mean a little more than a pine tree or two over here.

---------------

Actually I don't blame the Israeli's for this particular policy. The ground where many of the trees have been planted is fairly rocky and I'm sure it was hard to plant.