Functional or just psychological?

[beastmaster]

Today I found my self in a in a bad situation. I was doing a removal on a white fir, it was maybe 80 ft. and kind of skinny. Firs are a little brittle for my liking. I was limbing it up and was going to catch a small top. A bout 20 ft below where I want to take my top is a weird defect in the trunk. a big depression/wound of some kind. It has survived strong winds and snow so I know my skinny ass shouldn't stress it, but still I don't like climbing above it, even less catching a top. It to big for me to try and catch a top there.
So I suck my lanyard in so I am as close to the tree as I can get and still climb up. Here's my safety precaution. I tie my climbing line below the defect with a running RB(using a single rope and a gri gri)and pay out line as I go up. I went up another 15 feet and took a small top, catching it on it's self. No pulley. Every thing went fine. But let say the top broke out at the defect with me above it, tied in. I would fall 30 ft before the rope caught me. Is this just wish full thinking on my part that I could survive that? In my mind I would try to unhook real fast from the tree. It gives me a little piece of mind. I wouldn't climb above the defect in the first place if I didn't think it was safe, so the rope is more for my psychological well being. I have used this a few times in the past on iffy stuff. Waste of time or possible life saver?

 

[2treeornot2tree]

A 30 foot fall on rock climbing rope is nothing, but on arborist rope, I would think you would break your back. Plus you have piece of tree hooked to you. Would just be a bad situation all around.

 

[derwoodii]

Being aware of threats, and planning A B or C for them is not a trick of the mind.
Worse is ignoring your instincts to treat threats with a mechanism of control. In the case described it was a back up plan unneeded and true may have not helped if it was. But from that point on above the defect your had a clearer mind to concentrate upon the task above and not what was below.

Skydivers carry a back up chute, deployed in hast it often fouls the main and they still suffer gravity's ills, but all will still carry that spare.

 

[beastmaster]

A 30 foot fall on rock climbing rope is nothing, but on arborist rope, I would think you would break your back. Plus you have piece of tree hooked to you. Would just be a bad situation all around.

I would like to get me some rock climbing rope just for situations like that thou they be rare. A while back I had to go way out on a top that did a 180 off into space. I went out to the tip and shortened and lightened it some, I did the same thing on it as I did the fir, but secured the top to the trunk in case it broke.

 

[squad143]

It may work, better than nothing if you have absolutely no other options.

With the climbing lines arborist use, they're considered a "static" rope (very little stretch). More than likely a 30' fall would break your back if it didn't kill you.

Purchase a "dynamic" (think bungee) rope. Rock climbers use them. Have your groundsman anchor the rope at the base of the tree to a porty and run it through a false crotch below the defect and then tie to your harness. If you do happen to fall there will be more rope in the system to absorb the impact (& stretch), just like rigging a chunk. Also, if need be, the groundsman could lower you to the ground via the porty.

 

[2treeornot2tree]

Eastern mountain sports has some good prices on rock climbing ropes. I like the mammont ropes the best because they were the cheapest, but held up good to use. Some times you can get a 60 meter rope on sale for about $100

 

[TreeAce]

Well one things for sure, you KNOW what will happen if you fall 80 feet. I also think you are to good to actually do something that you really think will get you killed. So I am thinking you felt the risk was acceptable but the super low odds of it going bad was just enough to apply a back up that would likely hurt you if not kill you but atleast it would give you a chance at survival vs the fall which is certian of out come. So my point.....IDK lol. I think you did it cuz it made you feel better and theres NOTHING wrong with that. I did a similar thing the other day topping (for removal) a dead oak. I tied into a neighboring tree cuz I was worried the tree could break below me. I though about the wire core saftey around the tree and how it would be close to impossiable to unhook it under so much tension (and personal stress). So I switched over to another climber line cuz I figured i could cut it fast with my 200 if need be. keep in mind the tree top I was tied into wasnt very big but better than nothing. I doubt it woulda held long enough to cut anything free. But I made me feel better. One good thing I got from this thread is now i am glad I have kept that 150 meter black diamond dynamic rope. I have had it along time but its like new. Always stored in a clean backpack in the basement so no sunlight and not a super dry place. I would trust my life to it as back up life support. It may find a spot in the truck this year.....

 

[formationrx]

you made the right call... something is better then nothing...

beast... i have had to do that too.... but next time i m going to take a little more time and do it squads way.... i hate studying defects/kinks/damage to see if it is strong enough to pass.....worst still is seeing no defect at all then finding out when i get on the ground that there was a hidden cavity and i was playing around on a shell below me.... it gives me a sick feeling in my stomach...

 

[treemandan]

I've done a few like that Beasty. A couple I did true mountain climber style setting beeners and having someone belay me. You just have to keep this one thought in mind and you will be ok... usually... I hope: Its not the fall that kills ya.

 

[Tree Pig]

you could put a screamer between you and the attachment point. May prevent injury from the jolt and could possibly keep you from snapping the spar. Basically its stitched to let go in stages to slow down your fall before you stop. I would not suggest employing it other then in a situation like yours. Long fall for rope to catch you and or dont want to totally shock load the tie in.


screamer

 

[newsawtooth]

Beast,

I've never used it, but read about it a few years ago. Page 33 or so section 4.2.2, just add protection at various intervals above the defect. All bets are off for rigging, of course you already know that. Can we ever really trust that which has never been forced to do what we ask it to do? I humbly defer to you.

http://www.fs.fed.us/treeclimbing/policy/guide/tree-climbing-field-guide-2005-edition.pdf

 

[beastmaster]

Beast,

I've never used it, but read about it a few years ago. Page 33 or so section 4.2.2, just add protection at various intervals above the defect. All bets are off for rigging, of course you already know that. Can we ever really trust that which has never been forced to do what we ask it to do? I humbly defer to you.

http://www.fs.fed.us/treeclimbing/policy/guide/tree-climbing-field-guide-2005-edition.pdf

Thanks a lot, there was some vary interesting stuff in there. I have always theorized about doing a belay on a dangerous hazard type tree. I would sure like to take out some tops with blasting gel too

 

[arborjockey]

Good stuff here. I've gotten pins and needles in really easy trees before. Then in some rotten nasty old things I've just tore through them. Pines and firs with swollen or defective trunks always make me weary of telephone polling on me (snapping in the middle.) When I worked for the pastor he would always take the nnasty nasty rotten, sketchy, leaners. He said he's been good and has lived a long life. Such a nut ball.


So the story go's my Dads tree buddy calls us up and says he needs some help. We drive out to T.V. highway wher some mexicans have started cutting down this big fir tree. It was leaning over the highway so they went 1\2 way up and tied it to the ranger. After cutting around in circles at the base the tree started to drag the truck and they stopped. They called my dads buddy and he called us. I thought crane job right off the bat. George says "forget it" . The Pastors favorite saying. Doesn't even guy it off. He shoots up it and just smokes it

I watched the wind blow a 1\2 open barber chaired tree. When the wind blew the crack would open and close as the roots would lift. 1\2 the tree had blown over years ago. The half that left was rotten with a family of racoons + garbage in the leftover cavity. My bid was $12,000 . The tree was a huge Hackberry around power lines. Some fool climbed it in the wind and wrecked it out.

This is what I dwell on when going up a big tree. Not on all the good tree guys that get hurt doing the right thing.