going to select cut/thin our 120 accres....

[chucker]

ok so with the summer at its end and no work lined up for winter other than ice fishing gotta have something to do ! been tossing it around for awhile now to thin out the aspen and big tooth popel from our deer hunting property. with it being 120 acres an 32 of that as tillable field theres plenty of timber. over the fence line the neighbors 30 acres was appraised at 400 cords, so were expecting close to 1000 cords at the max. dbh of 12"....... planning to do this by ourselves, with a bobcat with clam attachment our biggest concern is finding a market for saw bolts, pulp to follow seems to be easy enough to sell ! price that was quoted by a log buyer was 35.00 a cd on the landing for pulp..... saw bolts last market value that i got was 80.00 a cord for 6" and bigger in 100" lengths deliverd to a local mill. what we are looking for is someone to do the hauling in 10 to ?? what ever size loads they can handle for a fair price..... we are currently looking to deal with 2 log yards and one of them is sappi out of baxter, mn. as a possible delivery by our own means.the other buyer is for saw bolts which has yet to be settled on for a price and cords? so what we need for a start is a hauler in the brainerd lakes area that would be interested in a weekly pickup/delivery or maybe 2in the near future as the project takes shape... thanks for your time or interest in reading the next adventure.. chucker open to advice........

 

[Oldtimer]

Yikes. Gonna do it with a Bobkitten? You guys are sure not scared of work, I'll give ya that.
My advice is do a little searching around for a skidder or better yet a forwarder to rent. Perhaps you can find a trucker with a "spare" machine he will rent to you at a good rate if he trucks the wood.
I have never used a Bobcat, but I'm thinking the rent on a small skidder or forwarder will be money well spent...

 

[Oldtimer]

Here's a Duetz powered C5D Tree farmer not too too far from you...and $9,000 is a damn fair price for it. Perhaps they would rent to own? I had one just the same as this, awesome machine, pulls like a herd of mules.

C5 TreeFarmer Skidder

This is an even better machine for the money...the grapple is a back saver that will increase production 3x over.

 

[chucker]

big equipment is not an option.. walking trails, with mature red an white oaks that could an would be damaged with large machinery. the property is situated to where all the pulls would be done at no longer than 100 yards in tree length. there are 2 centeraly located landings at each end of the open field. theres no hurry or amount that has to be harvested as its a leisure project.so just doing 10 to 20 cords a week all winter is just fine.the initial plan is to start with the biggest/smallest and clean up whats damaged by the harvesting..... the largest we have is just under 30" at ground level an 8 sticks high(75').....

 

[bitzer]

You are going to be working your ####ing ass off for 20 cords a week with that set-up. Small timber is a pain in the ass to lay out. Make sure you cut it on a windy day so it shakes out for you. Also $35/cord is pretty low. A bobcat in the snow in the woods around stumps is not happening for production. You need ground clearance. Even a small tractor to skid with would be better than that. Seriously, I'm not trying to be a ####, but that set-up will get old fast. You won't make enough to cover expenses/time believe it or not. A single bunk forwarder can make damn near 90 degree corners pretty easily. I do it everyday. Selective cutting with minimal damage/impact. It can be done. Around here you also need a contract to even take pulp to a mill. That also means proof of insurance.

 

[palogger390]

You are going to do more damage with that bobcat than a skidder or forwarder would ever do. I've seen crews use bobcats in the woods and its not pretty. The more trips you have to make the more damage to the forest. Like bitzer said your best bet is a small forwarder for the least impact. Just 2 cents from an experienced logger.

 

[Oldtimer]

We aren't trying to be dikks. It's just that we don't want you guys to waste time and fuel and wood and maybe even get hurt in the process. A forwarder could be rented for a week...
If you were to cut and buck a whole crapload of wood ahead of time then rent that machine for the week...

 

[bitzer]

The other thing is thinning makes holes and openings. That is the point. What looks like a tight woods now looks very different with a bunch of stems gone. Cut the pulp and stack it by hand. Stratigically plan some roads to stack it along. Then rent the forwarder or find someone who knows how to run one already and pay him. There is going to be a learing curve with the machine and no matter how you want to figure it, there will be impact to the woods.

 

[Samlock]

The other thing is thinning makes holes and openings. That is the point. What looks like a tight woods now looks very different with a bunch of stems gone. Cut the pulp and stack it by hand. Stratigically plan some roads to stack it along. Then rent the forwarder or find someone who knows how to run one already and pay him. There is going to be a learing curve with the machine and no matter how you want to figure it, there will be impact to the woods.

A cutter can make a big difference, damagewise. Planning the roads is the first thing. A forwarder needs just a 4-4,3 meters (14'-15') wide corridor and it should be as straight as possible. Zigzags and curves cause most of the damage on the leave trees. The distance between the roads should be no more than 20 meters (65'). The strategic placing of the roads is also crucial.

Soil protection: Fell the trees whenever it's possible the crown heading the road. The slash should make a bed for the forwarder. The operator may cover the more sensitive spots with the slash too.

I second bitzer and Oldtimer. A bobcat will make a horrible mess. Of course I don't know exactly your circumstances in Michigan, yet my 2 cents is, call a forwarder operator, agree the price by a cord, cut the trees and then just sit, whistle and wait the timber showing up on the landing.

 

[bitzer]

A cutter can make a big difference, damagewise. Planning the roads is the first thing. A forwarder needs just a 4-4,3 meters (14'-15') wide corridor and it should be as straight as possible. Zigzags and curves cause most of the damage on the leave trees. The distance between the roads should be no more than 20 meters (65'). The strategic placing of the roads is also crucial.

Soil protection: Fell the trees whenever it's possible the crown heading the road. The slash should make a bed for the forwarder. The operator may cover the more sensitive spots with the slash too.

I second bitzer and Oldtimer. A bobcat will make a horrible mess. Of course I don't know exactly your circumstances in Michigan, yet my 2 cents is, call a forwarder operator, agree the price by a cord, cut the trees and then just sit, whistle and wait the timber showing up on the landing.

Right! I try to throw tops onto my roads if I can. Not huge ones that make more time for me, but any added flotation helps. Usually with tight corners its the ground that gets beat up for me. I would say a lot of my roads are only a foot or two wider than the machine on either side. Hiring a guy to move the wood out will pay for itself and then some. I'm off now for the Saturday shift and more pine pulp! 10 degrees here this morning.

 

[floyd]

Know anyone around you using a team of horses/mules/oxen that knows what they are doing?
A good operator can move alot of wood with little residual damage.

 

[lfnh]

Might think about getting a forester in there for ideas on planning the harvest using equipment or by horse team. As well as, options for marking the take/leave timber - depending on your goals for land use over time.
Maybe someone in the state forestry office would be a starting point.
Just a thought.

 

[madhatte]

I agree with all of the above. Definitely have a strategy for what you want the stand to look like, say, five years after thinning. Plan all road access, cut/leave, lays for falling, and even the haul contracting to achieve that goal. Don't go in there willy-nilly and hope for the best. If you can get a state forester to have a look for free, do it. Otherwise it will likely be worth it to pay a contractor to do the layout and marking so as to maximize benefits and minimize damage. 90 acres of timberland is a big enough chunk that you want to do it right the first time and not spend the next 30 years cleaning up your mistakes.

 

[Gologit]

I agree with all of the above. Definitely have a strategy for what you want the stand to look like, say, five years after thinning. Plan all road access, cut/leave, lays for falling, and even the haul contracting to achieve that goal. Don't go in there willy-nilly and hope for the best. If you can get a state forester to have a look for free, do it. Otherwise it will likely be worth it to pay a contractor to do the layout and marking so as to maximize benefits and minimize damage. 90 acres of timberland is a big enough chunk that you want to do it right the first time and not spend the next 30 years cleaning up your mistakes.

Well said.