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Arborsharp

Arborsharp

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I am working on developing a pay grade system for groundsmen in my central Iowa small tree care company (me+groundie) and wondered if I could get some advice.
what is good starting pay? top end?

https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/Tree-Groundsman-Salary$14.60/hr nationwide avg,

that being said, can I really pay groundsmen less than they could make at some of these other jobs?
local grocery distributor starting wages: $18 PT, $20 FT.
Amazon warehouse, $17.25
even McD's is up to $13

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk
 
I hired another part time helper at $15. She can make more than that somewhere else, but she isn't going to get the flexibility we'll offer. She is trying to get another business of her own off the ground so wants to make appointments with that. We're willing to work around her schedule to fill in the rest of her week. Will probably bump her pay pretty quick as she's doing great so far.
 
If you're working around a chipper. You want your rope minded. It's going to be at least 20. A young kid I know working under the table is doing 20.
 
sorry just responding- My app hasn't been working :-| he agreed to 17.30 plus productivity bonuses and a pathway to pay increases. definitely a different world than when i started working for 6.25 in high school in 05
thanks for the insights!
 
Tree guy I work for is 20 an hr for a groundsman, if your a good worker reliable and show your gonna work hard to get the job done he has no problem paying 25 and that’s just dragging and chipping. I operate machinery, cut, climb, and operate bucket truck and my rate starts at 30 and only goes up from there
 
Jwilliams said:
Tree guy I work for is 20 an hr for a groundsman, if your a good worker reliable and show your gonna work hard to get the job done he has no problem paying 25 and that’s just dragging and chipping. I operate machinery, cut, climb, and operate bucket truck and my rate starts at 30 and only goes up from there
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How much does the business owner make from the groundies hard work? Pays the guy $15/hr but charges out how much? $30/hr? $40/hr?
 
capetrees said:
How much does the business owner make from the groundies hard work? Pays the guy $15/hr but charges out how much? $30/hr? $40/hr?
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FWIW, my brother-in-law has run several businesses (never tree related). Does some consulting, sits on some boards, etc... He knows business.

He told me years ago it isn't uncommon to bill 2x the cost to employ. That is not just wage, but workers comp, employer share of FICA, and any benefits. Not sure if that also includes their vehicle and associated expenses?

I've personally felt the employee deserves a slightly higher % of what they generate...but I cannot forget about all those expenses plus the wear and tear that happens to equipment, PPE, etc... All more from an employee than from me because I paid for that stuff so I take better care. So 2x isn't too terrible far off. Maybe 2x hourly wage is a pretty good gauge?
 
ATH said:
FWIW, my brother-in-law has run several businesses (never tree related). Does some consulting, sits on some boards, etc... He knows business.

He told me years ago it isn't uncommon to bill 2x the cost to employ. That is not just wage, but workers comp, employer share of FICA, and any benefits. Not sure if that also includes their vehicle and associated expenses?

I've personally felt the employee deserves a slightly higher % of what they generate...but I cannot forget about all those expenses plus the wear and tear that happens to equipment, PPE, etc... All more from an employee than from me because I paid for that stuff so I take better care. So 2x isn't too terrible far off. Maybe 2x hourly wage is a pretty good gauge?
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Exactly. That's the accepted minimum that an employer charges out the man hour per employee, twice the wage. If the costs are covered, the more an employer pays the employee, the more that employer can make by charging out the higher doubled wage.

For example, if an employer pays his employees $20/hr and then charges out $40/hr for that employee, I would assume the costs are covered and at the very least, the costs are covered by the charged rate. All of the insurances and coverages and taxes you mention should be covered and should be somewhat constant although I know workers comp adjusts with wage. So if $40/hr covers the costs plus the hourly wage to the employee, almost every dollar given to an employee above that can be recovered from the client. So when the employee wants a $2 raise after some time, that $2 dollar raise can translate to a $4 increase to the client for the hourly rate for the manpower. Tight economy? Raise the charged rate by $3 or even simply the raise of $2 to cover the raise. Anything over the $2 increase of the charged hourly rate to the client results in a win win. Win #1 to the employee for the added income from the raise and #2 to the employer who makes more on the charge out to the client.
 
IF you can get away charging the client more.

Where I find it easy to give a raise is once a new employee gets settled into a groove, the same job gets done more quickly. I don't bill clients by the hour, rather by the job (which is quoted with a length of time in my mind). When we find jobs are getting done quicker than expected, it is because the workers are crushing it. Give them more. When things are right on pace, great...but to give them a raise, I've gotta bid higher which risks not getting the job...
 
The man hour average for the crew, including groundsmen and climbers/lift operators, needs to be at at least $100 per man hour to make a profit, after you include all business expenses, both general liability insurance (and the dreadfully expensive worker's comp), and trucks, trailers, chippers, climbing/rigging gear, any spider lifts, etc. For a simple, 50' spruce tree away from houses, that would be a job that would take a three man crew 4 hours on the job, times 3 guys (12 man hours). That would need to be $1,200.
 
20 bucks an hour. Who is going to risk getting hurt or killed on site (sucked into chipper, cut with chainsaw, hit by falling wood etc.) for 14.60 an hour?!? Not me, I'll tell you that.
If you're starting with the attitude of "how little can I pay people and get away with it" then you're already doomed. You'll treat your equipment like that too. In a year, you'll have a failing business with all broken **** and a high turnover of unskilled, unreliable labour. Pay your people well and support them in getting ISA certified, going to trade-school etc. if they're interested. Treat 'em with respect and they'll stick with you.
 
j_d said:
People can't get good help often because they don't pay enough. $14.60 is a joke and insulting to anyone that shows up, works hard and has the capacity to learn. How would you like to work for that?

Treat your people as well as you can. It will pay off.
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Depends on how they work, I have seen people that are worth that. They certainly didn't work hard. More like hardly work! Always grabbing a rake when others are pulling brush or lifting logs. And they didn't even rake good at all, how about raking like an old woman? I see what you are saying though a hard worker is worth 20.00 and up.
 

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