Hardwood pulp

[gsg]

Anyone getting more then 40 a ton before trucking in new england or new york?

 

[Cletuspsc]

I dont think youll see a price like that till spring time. Im at 36.50per in the 75 mile range to Finch add another 1.50 per ton for all the TLC and bs bonuses. Hemlock was creeping up there but it too has leveled out. Their yard is about 50% full and IP is only buying HW under contract.

 

[Oldtimer]

If my math is right, $40 a ton = $100 a cord.

I buy and sell by the cord, as most landowners only know wood in terms of cords- and I don't get scale slips for firewood loads...So...

$100 per cord what I get for 9 cords dropped in a customer's yard.

I pay $200 for trucking if it's close by (Under 15 miles) a little more after that.

I generally pay $10 per cord to the landowner, because that's all I can pay and still make a worthwhile profit on most jobs due to terrain and wood quality / density.

And let me be clear: I consider "profit" to be money left over after all expenses and my payroll.

So I make $610 from a 9 cord load of firewood as a general rule.

It's all about buying it right, and selling it right. As long as I can make more on firewood, I will not sell to a pulp mill. The only hardwood I send them is Poplar, rotten or over-sized low grade wood.

 

[gsg]

If my math is right, $40 a ton = $100 a cord.

I buy and sell by the cord, as most landowners only know wood in terms of cords- and I don't get scale slips for firewood loads...So...

$100 per cord what I get for 9 cords dropped in a customer's yard.

I pay $200 for trucking if it's close by (Under 15 miles) a little more after that.

I generally pay $10 per cord to the landowner, because that's all I can pay and still make a worthwhile profit on most jobs due to terrain and wood quality / density.

And let me be clear: I consider "profit" to be money left over after all expenses and my payroll.

So I make $610 from a 9 cord load of firewood as a general rule.

It's all about buying it right, and selling it right. As long as I can make more on firewood, I will not sell to a pulp mill. The only hardwood I send them is Poplar, rotten or over-sized low grade wood.

We try to put as much into firewood as we can. Problem is we send out 20 loads a week on average, (including saw logs, pulp veneer and everything else) so the firewood customers run out. We are working in ma now and the trucking to finch or ip soaks up most of the profits but it comes up the same selling it local because the price is lower to start with. I guess it is just a bad time to cut alot of pulp wood.

 

[peakbagger]

The entire market will change when Berlin NH goes on line this fall. They will be pulling wood for a 150 mile radius and have a wood price rider from PSNH that means they can pay whatever they have to run the plant at full load and I expect they will be putting pressure on pulpwood markets as there just are not enough folks in the market to handle the new demand. Very little wood comes west from Maine so its gotta come from VT of southern NH. All their wood has to be SFI so that makes thing even more interesting.

 

[Cletuspsc]

The entire market will change when Berlin NH goes on line this fall. They will be pulling wood for a 150 mile radius and have a wood price rider from PSNH that means they can pay whatever they have to run the plant at full load and I expect they will be putting pressure on pulpwood markets as there just are not enough folks in the market to handle the new demand. Very little wood comes west from Maine so its gotta come from VT of southern NH. All their wood has to be SFI so that makes thing even more interesting.

This is News to me when did this come about?. . . .The SFI can be a real pain in the ass some times, If your not cutting for a certified forester your outta luck.

 

[Oldtimer]

The entire market will change when Berlin NH goes on line this fall. They will be pulling wood for a 150 mile radius and have a wood price rider from PSNH that means they can pay whatever they have to run the plant at full load and I expect they will be putting pressure on pulpwood markets as there just are not enough folks in the market to handle the new demand. Very little wood comes west from Maine so its gotta come from VT of southern NH. All their wood has to be SFI so that makes thing even more interesting.

They stepped on their own feet with that SFI mandate. Puts small time guys like me doing 5 acre to 80 acre private lots right out of the running. Oh well, it'll serve to drive up the price a bit at the existing markets.

 

[lmbrman]

being certified isnt that big a deal- hanging around here is a good start

in WI, some land is SFI independent of the logger or forester, and loggers can get SFI credentials, not sure other places

less than $40/ton here at the moment, we need some bad weather, and will prolly get it

 

[QwikDraw]

I can't even get my foot in the door anywhere. I can't even get a call back.

I'm in CT and fairly new to selling pulp, I sell everything as firewood but that market is pretty tight right now. I can get rid of it but offers of $300 per tri-axle (picked up)really hurt. I've sold [ulp through a bigger company but they aren't taking any right now.

If you guys have any ideas I'd appreciate it.

 

[madhatte]

They stepped on their own feet with that SFI mandate.

Tell me more. I work on a FSC-certified forest and I would like to know how SFI and FSC differ on the ground. I know what it says on paper already.

 

[Cletuspsc]

I can't even get my foot in the door anywhere. I can't even get a call back.

I'm in CT and fairly new to selling pulp, I sell everything as firewood but that market is pretty tight right now. I can get rid of it but offers of $300 per tri-axle (picked up)really hurt. I've sold [ulp through a bigger company but they aren't taking any right now.

If you guys have any ideas I'd appreciate it.

Just call up Finch papers procurement department. They will set you up with a vendors number and figure out your milage. Then find your self a good trucker and it will be all down hill from there.

 

[Oldtimer]

Tell me more. I work on a FSC-certified forest and I would like to know how SFI and FSC differ on the ground. I know what it says on paper already.

I can't say with any truth just what the difference is between them.

I do know that a guy like me who is self employed and buys his own wood will not be able to sell them anything.

I looked into becoming SFI certified. It's a bunch of bull shizzle.
It's all about marketing, a "feel good" thing aimed at the new age green people.
The SFI backers want the loggers to buy into it so they can point and say "See? We love the forest and we love mother earth, so we only buy from SFI logger!! ONLY WE can sell you our wood that you can feel warm and fuzzy about!"
Not to mention that the "third party certifiers" get to make money on it.

What it does ON THE GROUND for the forest is diddly squat.

The nations forests are in NO jeapardy, and will not vanish because they get logged.
What is killing the forests is the very SFI warm and fuzzy green eco-nuts who need a second home "in the woods" and therefore fragment the forests into tiny lots that NEVER get cut again.

 

[lfnh]

until all those tiny sale plots get bug killed and the "esthetics" of logged over are more appealing than "bugged" over. high valued stumpage. quarantined. and no saw logs, just chips or compost. expect the unexpected.

stumpage becomes stumpee.

urban forestry at work.

 

[OlympicYJ]

SFI is way less restrictiv than FSC. Hatte, basically for WA it comes down to SFI follows the Forest and Fish rules and FSC as I'm sure you know is more restrictive in buffers and such. I don't know hoe the FSC auditing works but for SFI an independent auiditor comes out and gets driven around to clearcuts being harvested and that have been harvested. They look to verify that the acereage cut is the same as that shown on paper and look for any compliance type issues. If I remember correctly the audits are quarterly.

As for how it affects OT I haven't the foggiest. Different BMP's so I could see SFI being more restrictive in the East than here in WA since our's are very restrictive.

OT so for SFI certification you the logger need to be certified instead of the landowner? Here in WA the landowner is the one with the certification not the logger. The loggers may be able to be certified out here but I don't know of any. I'm curious too as to how tha works.

WES

 

[QwikDraw]

Maybe I should try again...
I called 3 times with no call backs within the past couple months.

Just call up Finch papers procurement department. They will set you up with a vendors number and figure out your milage. Then find your self a good trucker and it will be all down hill from there.

 

[Oldtimer]

SFI is way less restrictiv than FSC. Hatte, basically for WA it comes down to SFI follows the Forest and Fish rules and FSC as I'm sure you know is more restrictive in buffers and such. I don't know hoe the FSC auditing works but for SFI an independent auiditor comes out and gets driven around to clearcuts being harvested and that have been harvested. They look to verify that the acereage cut is the same as that shown on paper and look for any compliance type issues. If I remember correctly the audits are quarterly.

As for how it affects OT I haven't the foggiest. Different BMP's so I could see SFI being more restrictive in the East than here in WA since our's are very restrictive.

OT so for SFI certification you the logger need to be certified instead of the landowner? Here in WA the landowner is the one with the certification not the logger. The loggers may be able to be certified out here but I don't know of any. I'm curious too as to how tha works.

WES

As I understand it, pretty much any person in any forest related field can be SFI "certified".
SFI LINK.

 

[lmbrman]

I can't say with any truth just what the difference is between them.

I do know that a guy like me who is self employed and buys his own wood will not be able to sell them anything.

I looked into becoming SFI certified. It's a bunch of bull shizzle.
It's all about marketing, a "feel good" thing aimed at the new age green people.
The SFI backers want the loggers to buy into it so they can point and say "See? We love the forest and we love mother earth, so we only buy from SFI logger!! ONLY WE can sell you our wood that you can feel warm and fuzzy about!"
Not to mention that the "third party certifiers" get to make money on it.

What it does ON THE GROUND for the forest is diddly squat.

The nations forests are in NO jeapardy, and will not vanish because they get logged.
What is killing the forests is the very SFI warm and fuzzy green eco-nuts who need a second home "in the woods" and therefore fragment the forests into tiny lots that NEVER get cut again.

not disgreeing at all with your logic OT, but all the mills around here required certification of the land or the logger years ago-

how'd you sneak by all this time out there ? farther from the west coast ?

-dave

 

[Oldtimer]

We have more forested land, and therefore, the whole "trees are precious living beings" thing is slower to take root. But it has, and the day comes when I will have no choice but to pay them the blackmail money and jump through stupid hoops like a trained seal.
I would be ALL FOR IT if it actually helped the forests remain open to logging and to be responsibly used.
As it is, the money would be far better spent if it were donated to the SFPHNF.

 

[lmbrman]

I really dont know how much forested land we have or you have, but i agree the whole certification thing is somewhat a hoax. Timber industry is the largest industry in our state by dollars, and a few operators were giving the industry a bad name. They are gone now cause they refused to spend $10 twice a year for a seminar with lunch included to get a stupid piece of paper. Sometimes those guys beg to sell under a certified operators contract, and there usually is a hefty 'fee' for that. (way more than $10)

One of the training sessions involved machine operation. Dude giving the seminar did not know how to start the machine- it had a starter button and he broke the key off trying to turn it

There are some very good sessions too. Go for it, I bet you are certifiable OT. :hmm3grin2orange: