hazards and special concerns with climbing srt

[Adkpk]

We got into discussing the numerous hazards and special concerns one might encounter during an srt climb.

Mine was "tying off the anchor end of the line". But others are concerned with wind. What have you encountered during an srt climb that would be beneficial to both honing the skill and safety?

 

[moray]

DRT is a "self-belaying" system, and as such there is near universal agreement that the friction knot does not need to be backed up in some way. What's more, the knot typically sees less than half the climber's weight.

In SRT, both ascending and descending, the climber's full weight is borne by one device attached to the line. Safety dictates one should maintain two independent connections to the line at all times. If one device should fail in any way, the other is there to hold you. This implies that the surviving device is connected to you in some way that doesn't leave you inverted, or hanging from one foot, or what have you. It also implies that you have a means of descending should either device fail, and that you have practiced it.

That's just for starters!

 

[md_tree_dood]

I always use a prussic tied above my ascender whenever using the SRT method. It can get in the way but ascenders aren't life support and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

[Slvrmple72]

I always use a prussic tied above my ascender whenever using the SRT method. It can get in the way but ascenders aren't life support and shouldn't be treated as such.

+1

 

[Rickytree]

I always use a prussic tied above my ascender whenever using the SRT method. It can get in the way but ascenders aren't life support and shouldn't be treated as such.

what about Mars Bars? usually I'll use them on both parts of rope.

 

[moray]

The ground anchor in SRT, if you use one, is an item of vulnerability. There are a couple of public woodlands near my house with some tall climbing trees. Even though my little town is as safe as any, I still worry a little that someone will walk by, see my rope snaking up the tree, and wonder "I wonder what would happen if I cut this rope...?" Obviously if you are cutting in the tree, all those falling branches are a hazard to your lifeline. Another vulnerability is the stability of the anchor. Once I am up in the tree and the rope goes slack, will the anchor flop down, will the carabiner become reoriented with the load on the gate, or will it stay exactly as I left it? Moss showed a good system here. I like to use an anchor sling, but I wrap a piece of cheap rope around the tree to hold all the anchor elements in place.

 

[md_tree_dood]

what about Mars Bars? usually I'll use them on both parts of rope.

I can't see backing up mar bars since you have two cams on the rope and the bungie is rated. You could still back them up with a long prussic to be safe but that might be overkill

 

[moray]

stuck ascender

Another special hazard is the stuck ascender. Your rope is over a nice high limb, but for 10 feet below the limb the trunk is bare. You go shooting up the rope to take some pictures or just to show off, and decide to go as high as you can. You shove the top ascender right up to the limb and take in the view. You are now stuck. Since you cannot unload the ascender, the ascender is locked onto the line and you are going nowhere.

 

[Adkpk]

I always use a prussic tied above my ascender whenever using the SRT method. It can get in the way but ascenders aren't life support and shouldn't be treated as such.

I back up the top ascender of my TTMS (Texas Tree Monkey System) with a blakes but it below the top ascender. I figure if the ascender fails I need to be able to reach the blakes and this it not possible if it is above the ascender.

Another special hazard is the stuck ascender. Your rope is over a nice high limb, but for 10 feet below the limb the trunk is bare. You go shooting up the rope to take some pictures or just to show off, and decide to go as high as you can. You shove the top ascender right up to the limb and take in the view. You are now stuck. Since you cannot unload the ascender, the ascender is locked onto the line and you are going nowhere.

Did you do that? How did you unload the rope? I would throw my lanyard over the limb and hip thrust up tightening with the distal to unload the rope.

 

[rngrchad]

Another special hazard is the stuck ascender. Your rope is over a nice high limb, but for 10 feet below the limb the trunk is bare. You go shooting up the rope to take some pictures or just to show off, and decide to go as high as you can. You shove the top ascender right up to the limb and take in the view. You are now stuck. Since you cannot unload the ascender, the ascender is locked onto the line and you are going nowhere.

My ascender is attatched to a daisy (ie. sling) which is adjusted to a few inches below my maximum arm's reach. It is impossible for me to get far enough away from the ascender that I can't get back to it.

And to answer the questions about srt not being "redundant" or being backed up so to speak....I have a gri-gri attachted in short to my center harness point. This tool acts as a solo-belay and will engage when it experiences rope load.

My Gri-Gri has been modified so it will advance the climbing line without me having to "tend" it. A big-wall climbing friend of mine showed me that trick and it's soooo much more tree friendly than a stock gri-gri.

 

[moray]

...Did you do that? How did you unload the rope?...

Sort of. When I did it there was a limb I could stand on and I could unload the ascender. Now I always keep the ascender a few inches away from the TIP.

...My Gri-Gri has been modified so it will advance the climbing line without me having to "tend" it. A big-wall climbing friend of mine showed me that trick and it's soooo much more tree friendly than a stock gri-gri.

rngrchad, c'mon man, don't leave us all hanging here--show us the mod!

 

[Slvrmple72]

Another special hazard is the stuck ascender. Your rope is over a nice high limb, but for 10 feet below the limb the trunk is bare. You go shooting up the rope to take some pictures or just to show off, and decide to go as high as you can. You shove the top ascender right up to the limb and take in the view. You are now stuck. Since you cannot unload the ascender, the ascender is locked onto the line and you are going nowhere.

And then when you go to get your prussic loop from the back of your belt to tie in you drop it! Now what!


Redundancy,redundancy,redundancy!

 

[Adkpk]

And then when you go to get your prussic loop from the back of your belt to tie in you drop it! Now what!


Redundancy,redundancy,redundancy!

You don't carry an 8?

 

[rngrchad]

Sort of. When I did it there was a limb I could stand on and I could unload the ascender. Now I always keep the ascender a few inches away from the TIP.



rngrchad, c'mon man, don't leave us all hanging here--show us the mod!

I will post pics soon....All I did was remove the metal curved rolled edge on and drilled a small hole into the back of the plastic where I tied in a tiny thread of rope. I attatch a sling around my neck and down to the gri-gri to keep it oriented in a vertical manner. This way, with the rolled edge partially removed, the rope now runs through the device in a straighter line allowing it to "walk" up the rope without constantly jamming. My main reason for this mod was because I climbed a lot solo on top-rope pre-working really hard 5.11+ trad routes but thats another story....now I'm playing around in trees and almost killing myself.
I'll get pics not of me almost killing myself, but of the gr-gri mod.

 

[davej]

In SRT [...] Safety dictates one should maintain two independent connections to the line at all times. If one device should fail in any way, the other is there to hold you.

So if you are frogging with a Pantin on one foot and a handled ascender footloop on the other foot, and you have a hitch, and the hitch and handled ascender are both clipped to your harness, is that sufficient or is that sort of minimal?

 

[moss]

So if you are frogging with a Pantin on one foot and a handled ascender footloop on the other foot, and you have a hitch, and the hitch and handled ascender are both clipped to your harness, is that sufficient or is that sort of minimal?

That wouldn't be a Tree Frog, a hitch can't be substituted very well for a Croll (typical ascender at the waist for Tree Frog). I climb something similar except there is no foot loop off the top ascender, it's more like a jugging or Texas System but no foot loops. Is it minmal? More minimal then most but not the most minimal SRT setup.
-moss

 

[046]

looking forward to pic's too

I will post pics soon....All I did was remove the metal curved rolled edge on and drilled a small hole into the back of the plastic where I tied in a tiny thread of rope. I attatch a sling around my neck and down to the gri-gri to keep it oriented in a vertical manner. This way, with the rolled edge partially removed, the rope now runs through the device in a straighter line allowing it to "walk" up the rope without constantly jamming. My main reason for this mod was because I climbed a lot solo on top-rope pre-working really hard 5.11+ trad routes but thats another story....now I'm playing around in trees and almost killing myself.
I'll get pics not of me almost killing myself, but of the gr-gri mod.

 

[moray]

descender hazard

This is a "moving parts" hazard. Your long-haired friend is descending on her rappel rack (or Grigri or ATC or whatever) when suddenly, in a moment of inattention, 8 inches of her hair gets sucked into the device. Her forehead is now 3 inches from the device, she can't go up, she can't maneuver enough to unload the device, and she has no knife to cut her hair. Whoops!

A glove or a sleeve can also get caught. I allowed a glove to get too close one time, but before it really got stuck in the ringer I was able to yank it free.

 

[davej]

That wouldn't be a Tree Frog, a hitch can't be substituted very well for a Croll (typical ascender at the waist for Tree Frog)

Ok, why not? With an ascender for each foot the Croll isn't going to be loaded for each step but only when you stop to relax. In that situation I'd think a hitch would substitute adequately. Not so? The naming question I left on the TCI forum.

Is it minmal? More minimal then most but not the most minimal SRT setup.

In SRT is a hitch considered more minimal than a Croll? You can't descend on a hitch SRT, but you can't descend on a Croll either.

 

[moss]

Ok, why not? With an ascender for each foot the Croll isn't going to be loaded for each step but only when you stop to relax. In that situation I'd think a hitch would substitute adequately.

In a Tree Frog system you need something holding up the Croll or it doesn't work. You might be able to figure out how to hold a hitch up so it behaves the same way, but I think it's more trouble than it' s worth. Try it out and see what happens.
-moss