Hello im looking to start up a horse or in my case mule loggin business,I have worked mules for sometime on the farm though it might be pretty neat to do for a living. Anybody in the business of horse logging that could maybe give a few pointers on starting up?
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exSW
ArboristSite Guru
First make sure there is no Amish in your area to compete with you.
I can't tell you anything about mules but I have worked for a horse logging outfit for a few years.
First buy a Ford F550 or equivalent and an extra tall gooseneck stock trailer or horse trailer. Figure about $80,000.00 for those two items. Next two trained draft horses for $20,000.00. Next buy hay and grain to last a year. 20 tons of hay and 500 pounds of grain should be enough. The horses need a big pasture to stay healthy and strong, say 40 acres. Situate your barn at the top of a hill and have your pasture lead downhill so the horses get exercise every day.
Subscribe to draft horse magazines to get names of manufacturers of harnesses and tack. The Amish are good resources here. Learn to shoe your horses as most farriers won't do draft horses or mules. Buy a forecart to get the front of the logs off the ground. They're cheap at $4,000.00. Ground driving is brutal on the horses and equipment. Vet insurance isn't cheap (if you can find it) so always have extra cash on hand. $5,000.00 should cover any minor issue.
Here in Cali you need to be a Licensed Timber Operator, an LTO, to cut and haul trees. (Someone will also need a Timber Harvest Permit, a THP, which can take a year or more to get.)
How will you get your logs up off the ground and onto a truck to get to the mill? Self loader, log loader, or front end loader with log forks? If your horses are not used during the winter don't forget they need to be worked into shape slowly just like a human. Send pics.
First buy a Ford F550 or equivalent and an extra tall gooseneck stock trailer or horse trailer. Figure about $80,000.00 for those two items. Next two trained draft horses for $20,000.00. Next buy hay and grain to last a year. 20 tons of hay and 500 pounds of grain should be enough. The horses need a big pasture to stay healthy and strong, say 40 acres. Situate your barn at the top of a hill and have your pasture lead downhill so the horses get exercise every day.
Subscribe to draft horse magazines to get names of manufacturers of harnesses and tack. The Amish are good resources here. Learn to shoe your horses as most farriers won't do draft horses or mules. Buy a forecart to get the front of the logs off the ground. They're cheap at $4,000.00. Ground driving is brutal on the horses and equipment. Vet insurance isn't cheap (if you can find it) so always have extra cash on hand. $5,000.00 should cover any minor issue.
Here in Cali you need to be a Licensed Timber Operator, an LTO, to cut and haul trees. (Someone will also need a Timber Harvest Permit, a THP, which can take a year or more to get.)
How will you get your logs up off the ground and onto a truck to get to the mill? Self loader, log loader, or front end loader with log forks? If your horses are not used during the winter don't forget they need to be worked into shape slowly just like a human. Send pics.
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zogger
Tree Freak
Shouldn't be too hard to find a log truck someplace. I have seen several come up in the local CL here over the past few years.
Anyway, hope you get it together, looking forward to some updates with your team and some wood!
I have a couple donkeys here but I have no idea how to work them or even what gear I would need, even to just do some small scale firewood. Never did a lick of anything like that but it's interesting to me. They aren't big like horses or mules but I would imagine they could drag out *something*.
Anyway, hope you get it together, looking forward to some updates with your team and some wood!
I have a couple donkeys here but I have no idea how to work them or even what gear I would need, even to just do some small scale firewood. Never did a lick of anything like that but it's interesting to me. They aren't big like horses or mules but I would imagine they could drag out *something*.
It's like any other kind of logging...you need to know what your operating expenses will be. If you don't know what it's costing you to work it's hard to figure out what to charge.
Sit down and pencil out all your fixed costs, throw in a couple of points for unexpected costs, and have at least a rough idea of what you'll be spending. Figure out what you'll have left for your pocket. There's usually a huge difference between gross and net profit.
If you'e not charging enough you can go broke so slowly that you might not notice it until it's too late because you're working so hard that little details slip by you. Again...like any other kind of logging.
Yes a donkey is a good animal stout for there size. Get ya a collar tug harness and some good lines you will be in bussiness .
So, you take a totally green animal, throw a harness on, hook up logs or whatever and start working? And things go well? Nothing broken? The beast automatically understands and all is well?
Here's what happened with my saddle horse and out next door neighbor who was a horse trader/shoer/whisperer. He hooked her up to a sled because he'd been told she was "harness broke". She immediately started bucking and acting up. The sled moved a little bit, the harness broke from all the jerking. She was a saddle horse and not completely new to the world of bridles, reins and commands.
I'd say it takes a bit more than hooking them up and going to work. Maybe you have a special touch?
Plus, nobody has mentioned getting the animal conditioned. They get tired. They get tired faster if they are new to the work. They're like us in that way.
A logger kept his horse corralled at the logging site. The horse broke out and went home, which was quite a ways away. The horse could not work the next day because it was worn out from the trip home.
Here's what happened with my saddle horse and out next door neighbor who was a horse trader/shoer/whisperer. He hooked her up to a sled because he'd been told she was "harness broke". She immediately started bucking and acting up. The sled moved a little bit, the harness broke from all the jerking. She was a saddle horse and not completely new to the world of bridles, reins and commands.
I'd say it takes a bit more than hooking them up and going to work. Maybe you have a special touch?
Plus, nobody has mentioned getting the animal conditioned. They get tired. They get tired faster if they are new to the work. They're like us in that way.
A logger kept his horse corralled at the logging site. The horse broke out and went home, which was quite a ways away. The horse could not work the next day because it was worn out from the trip home.
lmbrman
stumped
I would think there is a niche for this type of operation, but it would be tough where I am, not the small scale part but the horse part. Lots of Amish around here do this, send their kids out for a few bucks an hour with the team, they already have the team and the feed, so whatever the kids make is bonus money. I went along once on a sale just to see what it was about. The team had not really worked yet that year, and when they were hitched to the tree they started quivering and shaking, then took off full speed out the woods, past the landing, out the road and down the middle of the road full speed to the first house for a water break.
The guy whose driveway they came in was a jokester, so he cut the whole tree up for firewood, stacked it in the woodshed and sent the horses home.
I was already a little spooked by horses, now I am worse. Looks like it could be fun but not my thing.
The guy whose driveway they came in was a jokester, so he cut the whole tree up for firewood, stacked it in the woodshed and sent the horses home.
I was already a little spooked by horses, now I am worse. Looks like it could be fun but not my thing.
zogger
Tree Freak
I logged..well.."firewooded" with a big dog before. Built a chest harness for him with some burlap bags and straps from my pack, had some generic rope, grabbed axe and bowsaw and went into the woods, hooked him to some small trees, and he drug them out. He loved it! I wasn't sure how much he could do and for how long, etc, but I always tuckered out hand sawing before he tuckered out dragging small trees back (and I do mean small, 6 inch or so was typical, but over 20 feet long). I bucked them up in the back yard, just fell and trim out in the woods. Now this was winter and deep snow, I tramped and busted a path, he skidded the logs back. He was always eager to do it, too, tail wagging happy dog.
That guy ate ten lbs dog chow plus scraps a day. Irish wolfhound/english sheepdog mix
I think the idea is to have a team that knows whats going on... so if it where me I'd get into the firewood and horse training business and train all the horses to come back to my place with every 3rd turn...
That and isn't someone supposed to be driving, hence the term Donkey puncher, or "teamster", or for them that talk funny Drover...
If you've never moved logs with animals before I strongly suggest you find someone who has to give you a crash course in mule logging. From What I understand it looks all slow paced and *****'n but its a whole lot more dangerous than being tucked away in the cab of a skidder or cat, you'll be out there all alone with nothing but a bit of plastic or aluminium over your noggin, and just some nice boots to cover your feet... Logs roll, branches fall, trees get knocked over, tops bounce and defy gravity.
That being said, more power to you, I had considered horse or ox logging a few years ago, but diesel is cheaper, and pony's take more room than a tractor.
That and isn't someone supposed to be driving, hence the term Donkey puncher, or "teamster", or for them that talk funny Drover...
If you've never moved logs with animals before I strongly suggest you find someone who has to give you a crash course in mule logging. From What I understand it looks all slow paced and *****'n but its a whole lot more dangerous than being tucked away in the cab of a skidder or cat, you'll be out there all alone with nothing but a bit of plastic or aluminium over your noggin, and just some nice boots to cover your feet... Logs roll, branches fall, trees get knocked over, tops bounce and defy gravity.
That being said, more power to you, I had considered horse or ox logging a few years ago, but diesel is cheaper, and pony's take more room than a tractor.
Ok I want that dog... pics or it didn't happen...
zogger
Tree Freak
Oh man, decades ago, sorry no pics. Big tall off white curly hair. Kids loved him, big fuzzy bear looking dog. He wasn't that heavy, 93 or so lbs from what I remember, but he had four paw drive and torque.
Plus, skidding on the beat down icy/packed snow trails wasn't that bad, the logs just slid along. Heck, * skinny little me* had been doing the skidding previous to that, and he was following me around, and I go, "hey, you gotta work, too"! so I rearranged my cobjob rig to fit him.
I gave The Used Dog a chunk of firewood to bring in and he took it to his storage place which was under the porch. 
Horses are fine but I prefer Cats and skidders and such. They go where you point them and they don't eat when they're not working.
Good point. You have to check the animals every day.
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