Help with consolidated dutch west

[rpaulson]

Hi to all that reads this thread! I'm having issues with my wood stove, looking for some feedback.
It's a consolidated dutch west. I believe it's fa224 model 2181 but not exactly sure. Anyway, it came with a trailer I bought last year and the previous owner told me that they burned coal in it. I had no desire to burn coal in it so just went with wood. I thought it worked pretty well until I noticed that I melted part of the glass frame and warped the back heat shield, getting her a little too hot I guess!

Fast forward to this year with new parts and trying not to get it so hot and I noticed a severe increase in chimney soot. Been having to clean it every other week so I decided to scan the net to figure out what was going on. After finding a manual on what I believe is the right model I realized I was running it all wrong. Trying to use it properly now I'm finding a severe lack of performance. From what I've dug up on the net so far I'm pretty sure that the catalytic combuster is not working, I'm having a hell of a time trying to heat my place right now and am looking for any feedback on what I should try? Fix the catalytic? Get a new stove? Run it differently?

I've read through some old threads on similar stoves and seems people have some conflicting ideas on running these stoves so I figured I would start a new one to get some more feedback. Sorry for the long rant but any info will be appreciated!

 

[wrcho]

post up some pictures so we can at least identify which model you have?

 

[rpaulson]

 

[rpaulson]

LWH is approximately 21"×15"×24"

 

[wrcho]

Looks like you do have the 1990's model small stove. I have the older version of that stove, but the operation is very similar. The manual instructions are very good and covers how to run the stove. Also search "hxxrth dot com" for many postings on this stove use.

Things I would recommend to help performance 0) DRY SEASONED wood, 1) a fan to get the heat out of the stove (installs in the port in the lower right of stove) 2) a magnetic surface thermometer to put in the front of the stove, 3) a catalytic probe thermometer for the opening on the top of the stove.

To check the cat, get a good fire going with the damper open. After 20-30 minutes, look down at the
opening in the top of the stove. The cat should start to glow red-orange. If it's orange, close the main
damper and some of the air. The converter should turn bright orange within 10 minutes (800-1000 degrees)
with the cat themometer. If not, maybe it is shot, or clogged with fly ash.

I run my stove at 300-500 degrees surface temp, and the cat running at about 1000 degrees. With the fan,
I can get my house up to 70 degrees after a few hours. Remember, this is their SMALL stove, so don't
expect to heat up a giantnormous area with it!

 

[rpaulson]

Thanks for the quality info wrcho! I've been following the operating instructions in the manual and trying different variations of air flow but still not performing as I would like it to. I'm pretty sure that the cat is not working, I've never seen anything glow in there. I've been using an infrared thermometer to check the surface Temps. I get it to about 550 on the sides but the top never gets over 350 and that's with the flue damper open, when I close the flue I loose 150-200 degrees within 20 minutes. I realize that it's not designed to heat a large area but I only have around 1000 square feet although it's poorly insulated. On a cold night I can loose 35 degrees in 6 hours when the fire dies out! I do get better performance from the stove when I use the ash pan damper but the instructions say never use that when burning wood, only coal and that's probably why I had the warping issue last season. Do you ever use that damper or just the side door?

Eventually I'm going to try to figure out where all my heat loss is coming from in the trailer but for now I'm trying to decide if it's worth trying to fix the cat or just look into a different stove? I guess I can pop the top and see if it just needs a cleaning but in the long run I really think that I need a bigger stove to heat this cold trailer like I want! But for this season I'm going to have to make do with what I got!
Thanks again for all your input, I'll check out that other site and try to take a look at the cat, from other threads I've read a working cat can make a world of difference!

Have a great new year!

 

[wrcho]

550 on the sides (I assume the front too) is plenty hot to heat! I'd open up the top and vacuum out any ash that may be clogging the converter. (maybe it's missing!)

yes, I do use the bottom door and valve but just to to start up the fire. Gets a lot of air inside the stove and makes a roaring big fire. I'd use either the door or the bottom air valve to run the stove, but not both.

A converter is about $135 (6" x 2" x 25 holes/inch) on Amazon. Makes a lot more heat by burning the smoke. If you do get a new cat, get the probe thermometer too.

Placing a portable or a box fan to blow air around the stove would move that heat around.
There's a lot of heat left in that stove for many hours after the flame goes out.

Seal the air leaks first! Use blue masking tape to seal the windows/doors. Comes off easy in the spring. Ugly, but inexpensive weatherstripping

I'm sitting in my kitchen typing this...outside: 2 degrees; inside here; 69. The stove has a full load of oak,
side air 3/4 turns open; the front is 450 deg,, the cat on top 1200..the air blowing out is at 300. Pretty good
for an old stove!

I'd keep the stove...for a small investment, you have a good stove for many years of heat. Much cheaper,
than the $1000+ for a new stove!

 

[Multifaceted]

I have this same if not a very similar model stove. It might be the catalytic combuster, they only last about 2-3 years depending on how much you burn. I replaced the one on mine last winter along with the temp guage, which appears to be missing on yours.

Right now it's 18°F outside and with the stove running it's 73°F inside. Here's how I start mine:

• Open bypass gate to chimney
• Open the bottom draft vent 3 full turns
• Close the upper draft vent and firebox vent
• Start a small fire through front doors, then add to it every few minutes until established
• Once small fire established, add larger pieces through the side door a few at a time until firebox is 50-75% full (you can open the firebox vent if needed)
• Let her rip wide open until the catalyst is over 500°F and the precious metals are activated
• Once it is over 500°F, open the upper combuster chamber vent two full turns, close off the bypass gate directing the gasses through the catalyst, then fully close the bottom draft vent. Here you should see the temperature slowly climb upwards of 1,200°F (we burn oak, ash, black locust, cherry)
• You can use the side firebox vent to control the burn rate. I like to leave it open about a turn or two

Once the catalyst is hot enough, it will re-burn the gasses in the chamber and you should only see steam or clear vapor coming from your chimney. Making sure you open the bypass gate before opening the firebox door otherwise you'll get a face full of smoke. If the temp drops below 500°F, open up the bypass gate and side vent, then add more wood over coals and run wide open until the catalyst reaches operating temperature again, then close and let re-burn.

Hope this helps!

 

[rpaulson]

Thanks for the info fellas! I think I got the catalytic working with a little clean job. Maybe because the former owner burned mostly coal it got clogged up a little?
I'm going to play around with some of the tips from you guys and see what happens. I do want to get the temp probe also so I have a better idea of what's going on in there
BTW I would kill for some of those hardwoods! I'm stuck with mostly soft stuff around here

 

[Multifaceted]

Thanks for the info fellas! I think I got the catalytic working with a little clean job. Maybe because the former owner burned mostly coal it got clogged up a little?
I'm going to play around with some of the tips from you guys and see what happens. I do want to get the temp probe also so I have a better idea of what's going on in there
BTW I would kill for some of those hardwoods! I'm stuck with mostly soft stuff around here

You should be OK with the softwoods, they seem to burn faster and hotter, but not as long as the hardwoods because they are less dense. Since you mention that the previous owner burned mostly coal, you may still have the damper installed, which the manual tells you to remove when burning wood. It's a circular plate about 6-7" in diameter with a series of holes in it. May want to go check that when the stove is cooled, it might restrict the outflow of gas/air to the chimney and disrupt convection... or something like that, I'm not a physicist, ha ha

 

[rpaulson]

You should be OK with the softwoods, they seem to burn faster and hotter, but not as long as the hardwoods because they are less dense. Since you mention that the previous owner burned mostly coal, you may still have the damper installed, which the manual tells you to remove when burning wood. It's a circular plate about 6-7" in diameter with a series of holes in it. May want to go check that when the stove is cooled, it might restrict the outflow of gas/air to the chimney and disrupt convection... or something like that, I'm not a physicist, ha ha

We may be on to something here! There's a damper of some kind in there, it looks like this picture. Are you saying that I should remove it? I've been wondering if they didn't have it set up to burn coal and that's why I'm having some of my problems. The manual also says that you need a wood grate for burning wood? Right now I have the 2 shaker grates with a 2" bar running down the middle, should I have a different grate in there?

I definitely have the cat working although I can only get the outside of the stove temps to about 320 degrees, that's not really cutting it with the morning chill creapin in right now!

 

[rpaulson]

Oops, I forgot the pic. This thing is on the inside of the stove below the catalyst.

 

[wrcho]

Your pictured plate is the correct one. It's a patened design feature for the stove!. As multifaceted mentioned, to burn coal, CDW provided a perforated iron plate to replace the cat, removable side and front plates in the stove to hold the coal. No cat is used while burning coal.

Increase the air into the burning stove. Open the bottom damper too if you have to. You should be able to
get 500-600 degrees, but you may have to reload a lot more frequently.

Is the cat glowing bright orange now? If so, that's 800+ degrees in there. A dead cat won't start glowing until it reaches 900-1000 degress.

 

[rpaulson]

Your pictured plate is the correct one. It's a patened design feature for the stove!. As multifaceted mentioned, to burn coal, CDW provided a perforated iron plate to replace the cat, removable side and front plates in the stove to hold the coal. No cat is used while burning coal.

Increase the air into the burning stove. Open the bottom damper too if you have to. You should be able to
get 500-600 degrees, but you may have to reload a lot more frequently.

Is the cat glowing bright orange now? If so, that's 800+ degrees in there. A dead cat won't start glowing until it reaches 900-1000 degress.

Yes, cat is glowing bright, at least for a few hours since I cleaned it. So you are saying that the baffle is correct, I don't need to do anything different there? I'm actually liking the action with the cat working! I'm able to keep coals in there much longer even using small wood. Before I used to have to stick as big of a round I could in it to have any coals 6 hours later and half the time it would put the fire out and just smolder not really putting out much heat. Now I have coals 9 hours later even using small stuff! But having the exterior in the low 300's made it difficult to warm this place up this morning, I think using the bottom damper will help with that though, I'll keep trying different combos to find something I can live with.
Thanks again for the input!

 

[Multifaceted]

The manual also says that you need a wood grate for burning wood? Right now I have the 2 shaker grates with a 2" bar running down the middle, should I have a different grate in there?

The previous owners of my house had a similar rig job going, except it was two iron bars and it drove me nuts. I ended up ordering one from the Black Swan: http://blackswanhome.com/fixed-grate/ - they'r3 $36.00, ended up being around $50 to ship to my door if I remember correctly. The new cat and temp probe I got on Amazon.

We may be on to something here! There's a damper of some kind in there, it looks like this picture. Are you saying that I should remove it? I've been wondering if they didn't have it set up to burn coal and that's why I'm having some of my problems. The manual also says that you need a wood grate for burning wood? Right now I have the 2 shaker grates with a 2" bar running down the middle, should I have a different grate in there?

I definitely have the cat working although I can only get the outside of the stove temps to about 320 degrees, that's not really cutting it with the morning chill creapin in right now!

What I was referring to what something else, it's just a circular iron plate with about 6" or so, here's mine from my parts box:

@wrcho is correct, I must have had my terms confused, what I was talking about isn't a damper. I haven't read the manual since we bought the place, but I did find one that should suffice for our stoves, here is the link to my cloud storage: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0By2Jb7fwb7PQekdVM2d0YkdKdlU/view?usp=sharing