Help with FM friction starter

[robertdi8]

HI, first post.
I have just started working on a well used Skil 1645. I took to starter apart to clean and now cannot get the pawls to engage in the cup. I tried cleaning with degreaser, drying, sharpening the pawls, adding a shim and so far no luck. It was sort of working prior to cleaning, although It would not recoil properly. Any help gratefully appreciated.
Dave

 

[pioneerguy600]

All the Fairbanks Morse starters work on the same principle, they must be clean and dry, no lubricants, the friction washers and spring loaded shoes need to be in very good shape, too much slack from wear will not allow them to work properly. Can you put up a few pics of what you have, we could help more if we can see what you are working with.

 

[MacAttack]

Yeah some pics would be helpful. I had one apart not long ago to replace the recoil spring, it's back together and working. One thing for sure they have to be assembled in the correct order with the pawls oriented the right way. The tiny spring in the center puts enough pressure on the friction plates to force the pawls out to dig into the cup on the flywheel. If anything isn't right it won't work.

 

[MacAttack]

One thing I remember about the pawls, they don't work exactly like you think they would. When the recoil is off the saw, and you pull on the recoil rope, you should see the pawls move outward. Does this happen?
The interesting was, the ends of the pawls that extend outward first should not be the pawls with the biting edge, the should be the dull ends. So what happens is the dull ends push into the flywheel cup first, the pawls rock on the recoil assembly and the sharpened ends are then leveraged into the flywheel cup to grab it. Based on my memory from about 6 months ago.

PioneerGuy, does that sound right to you?

 

[67L36Driver]

PartsTree had the friction washers for like 47 cents each years ago but I haven’t looked lately. Their minimum shipping was eight bucks at that time also.[emoji90]

Ever the bargain hunter I ordered forty in order to get the cost each down to reasonable.[emoji106]

Gave away one or two pair to anyone who wanted them at the first Iowa GTG I attended .like party favors.[emoji6]

I think I have one pair left. [emoji848]

It helps to prick punch the ‘cup’ every 1/16” all the way around.

Narrow (not sharpen) the gripping end of the pawls at 45 degrees. A steady hand with a raker file.

 

[robertdi8]

Thank you guys for all the reply's. After my post I found a suggestion for straightening the pawls. i heated mine up with a torch and put them in a vice. They now work, so I suspect they were just a little too worn? As well, I found some fibre washers at MFG supply (Part #: 39-1570) for 34 cents. The shipping is the killer at $12!.
Based on my assumption that the pawls were too worn, can you find replacements for these anywhere?
Any other advice really appreciated as this is my first rebuild.
Dave.

 

[MacAttack]

Glad to hear it's working. I think I've seen parts on Ebay here and there.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you straightened the pawls though?

 

[robertdi8]

Glad to hear it's working. I think I've seen parts on Ebay here and there.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say you straightened the pawls though?

I read on a post somewhere on this site that straightening the pawls slightly can give enough extra length to connect to the cup. I heated the bend in the pawl and then tapped it straighter while locked in the vice. I hope I am explaining this correctly...Maybe someone with more experience can better describe this process?
I imagine it was only lengthened by an 1/8 or 1/16 but it was enough to start working again. Having said that I would like to replace them with fresher original equipment.
Dave

 

[MacAttack]

I read on a post somewhere on this site that straightening the pawls slightly can give enough extra length to connect to the cup. I heated the bend in the pawl and then tapped it straighter while locked in the vice. I hope I am explaining this correctly...Maybe someone with more experience can better describe this process?
I imagine it was only lengthened by an 1/8 or 1/16 but it was enough to start working again. Having said that I would like to replace them with fresher original equipment.
Dave

Ok I do understand, you took some of the bend out so that they are effectively longer. In my mind, I wonder if this helps because the end of the pawl also has a more aggressive angle to dig into the cup? But regardless if it's engaging good now you're all set.

I'm kicking myself because i apparently didn't save the pictures, but on my PM Canadien saw that uses the FM recoil, the cup on the flywheel is aluminum (I think), so the steel pawls had virtually no wear.