Homelite C-series Planetary Gear Drive Wanted

[GPH85]

To start with I hope I'm not stepping across any borders with this post, I'm not really sure if it goes against any rules or not... Hi, to start with a little about myself... I collect and restore Homelite C-Series saws that are to this day still used in logging and wood cutting... By Homelite C-Series I am of course referring to the C5, C5G, C51, C51G, C52, C7, C7G, C71, C71G, C72, C9, C9G, C91 and C91G... Unfortunately the only saws I have thus far been able to acquire are the C5, C51, C7, C9 and C91... I also have a C5/C7 mix breed and by this I mean I'v got a C5 with a C7 crank, which due to the fact that you have the longer stroke of the C7 crank and the higher dome (.022") of the C5 piston, it makes for one very nice torqy saw... BUT the saws that to this day have managed to really allude me are of course the gear drive versions "the one's ending in G"... SO if anyone knows of someone who has one of these saws or has one themselves and is willing to sale it, feel free to give me an email at --- [email protected] --- Also if you aren't necessarily willing to sale or part with the whole saw, would you be at all willing to part with or trade the gear drive parts... By this I mean I would trade the following for the corresponding parts off of your saw... The parts I am referring to are the fuel tank, rewind housing with fan shroud, air filter cover and of course the bar cover complete with planetary gear drive unit along with sprocket/hub assembly "I have .404 pitch, 3/8 or 7/16 pitch (8 tooth) and even a 1/2 pitch although you can no longer get 1/2 pitch chain very easily"... The only saw I don't have to be able to trade parts for of course is the C71, but as long as your willing, I can send you C7 parts "engine was the same on all of the saws with C and 7 in the title"... Also If you have the assembled drive unit by itself #A-58544-A "number may have changed over the years, so please don't go by it alone", email me with this info...

(SIDE NOTE) --- In regards to this posting if I have posted anything in which I'm not allowed to post, let me know and please fix it if you can ---


Thanks for any replies or postings in regards to this matter,
Greg

 

[RED-85-Z51]

Welcome to the Forum..Im not personally familiar with anything other than an old XL and some other old XL style saws...

in fact, Ive never seen a C series saw...That I know of.

I have a number here for someone that sells Obsolete and Current, new and Used Homelite parts...

Hawkins Brothers
Shelbina, MO 63468

PH: 573-588-4731
FAX- 573 588-4348

Good luck, and post pictures of what you got if you can!

 

[RaisedByWolves]

GPH85.


Most of what youve posted is Verboten due to the fact that Im looking for many of the same parts.



Just kidding guy, Welcome to AS!


I have a C-91 convertable that I would LOVE to have the convert part just to be able to show it in all its glory.


It says "C-91 CONVERTABLE" on the saw, is yours the same or does it say just C-91?

Monster saw in the DD state, cant imagine the power with the geardrive on it. I figure this saw should run for, what, about a month with the tank that it has.:jawdrop: 1/2 gallon? + nearly a quart of bar oil.


If you are in need of any parts shoot me a PM with the part #'s and Ill look in my stash.

Stick around, Ill also let you know if I come across any of the drives your looking for.

 

[ol'homey]

Hi Greg welcome to the forum!
I like the C series saws too. I have a C72 and a C9. My C72has seen a lot of use and the chrome has worn or flaked off around the exhaust ports and where the piston slides horizontally along the bottom of the bore. Any idea where I can find a decent jug? From your previous post it seems that i could put a C5 jug and piston on my C72 right? If you could tell me what will work and what won't as far as swapping jugs and pistons on the C series saws that would be a big help in finding a jug/piston combo that will work on my C72. I'm not a collector or restorer, just a guy trying to keep a couple of old saws alive.
BTW about 20 yrs. ago I saw an old and rusty C9G in my uncle's barn. It had a long bar and the 1/2" chain. My uncle said there was no use messing with it as it was locked up and not worth fixing because you couldn't find parts for it. He said even if I did get it going i would probably hurt myself with it as it was just "too much saw". It was one monster of a saw. I've liked the big old Homelites ever since.

 

[GPH85]

Ol'Homie, your uncle wouldn't still have that old C9G would he??? That is one of the gear driven C-Series saws that I have really been looking for...

Yes you can put a C5 piston in any of the following saws starting with the of course saws "of course" --- C5, C5G, C51, C51G and C52, then the other saws that it will work nicely in C7, C7G, C71, C71G and C72 ---

You don't absolutely need a new cylinder as long as your willing to pay "I think" $165, you can send it to usnicom and they will rechrome it, diamond hone it after boring it to a true circle and due to the fact that technology has advanced quite a bit since 63', this coating will provide better lubricity qualities and a better finish... SO now all you will need are the "newer" piston rings to go with the new cylinder finish... Their website is --- www.usnicom.com --- and then there is also another company that does this, but cost a considerable amount more --- www.maxpower-engines.com/mpcplate.htm --- should take you to their site...

There is also a company that has all new seals and bearings for these saws, but you have to take all of your old stuff to them, so they will be able to find the correct parts... Their website is --- www.motionindustries.com --- I hope all of this helps...

Yes the convertible means that they can be converted from direct drive to gear drive fairly easily, in fact they were originally advertised at being able to do this in 9 minutes... In fact you should find that your scrench has the nut size on it to remove the nut that holds the sprocket/hub assembly on... This should be the same size as the bar nuts...

The last time I tried to load pictures of my saws "I got the smaller images loaded", but I didn't copy the url's correctly or something and when you clicked on them, it just took you to the imageshack home page and on top of that it litterally took all day, so I don't know whether or not I will be able to get any of them displayed or not...

Thanks for all the reply's and keep them coming
Greg

 

[ol'homey]

Went to the usnicom site and since my jug is scored and will need boring it will cost $192 not including shipping both ways. So the total would probably be around $215 or so. I'd still have to buy a piston and rings too. This C72 saw isn't worth anywhere near $215, so it looks like replating the jug isn't an option. I guess I'll look for a C5 parts saw on Ebay but with my luck it's jug will be worse than the one I have now!
I haven't seen my uncle in years and have no idea if he still has the saw.

 

[GPH85]

Couldn't possibly call him up could you??? Or possibly send me his number Oh well it was worth a try right, that is if you don't... Yeh, I've been waiting for the same miracle of seeing an "in good shape" C5 myself to use for parts... A C51 or C52 will work just as well...

Thanks Again,
Greg

 

[ol'homey]

My uncle is over 80 and has had lots of medical problems. I'm not sure if he knows much of anything anymore. If my relatives down in FL find out I'm interested in the saw, I'm sure one of them will take it if they haven't already. My best bet would be next time I go down there try to track down the saw and offer whoever has it some $. If they sell it to me I put it in the truck and I'm gone. What's a locked up C9G covered in dirt with about a 4' long rusted bar and rusted 1/2" chain worth? Let's assume it has a scored cyl and piston and has been sitting in a barn for 30+ yrs. Who knows it may still be sitting right there in the barn. But if I start calling and asking questions and the relatives find out it's worth something I just know it will be gone.

 

[BostonBull]

GPH..............I sent you a PM.

 

[tomdcoker]

I have 2 C-51 parts saws that I am going to put on ebay in the future. If anyone is interested send me a pm and I will send you the details and pictures. Both saws are controvertible, but they are set up as direct drive. Tom

 

[GPH85]

Due to the fact that it is in the shape that's it's in, you would probably be lucky to get $10 - $15 for it, that is if you were selling it as it is right now... Now if you went to the trouble to clean up and repaint the bar, it alone could be sold for $20 - $50 if it is indeed 4 feet long... The $50 one would be a long shot considering if you know the right people and they have been trying to get rid of some parts "in other words giving deals on them", you could get a brand new 60" bar for $90 + or -... The 1/2" chain when cleaned up "sand blasted and fairly unused and undamaged", you could possibly get a pretty penny for this considering it's no longer available...

Saw wise though, with the engine locked down and rusted up, plus the fact that it has the "no longer" useable 1/2 chain sprocket, might if your lucky and put it on ebay "this is due to the fact that ebay can get it out there and the fact that the saw itself is so rare", might bring $20 - $90 with the locked down engine depending on who saw it and how badly they wanted it... More than likely would bring the $20 range though... The only reason anyone would buy it would be for the badging "which would have to be in good shape" and for the gear drive... Sprockets can always be made for the .404" chain I guess to work with the gear drive...

You have to keep in mind the shape of the saw when dealing with obsolete products like this... An in good shape Homelite 3100G "biggest saw homelite ever produced to my knowledge" sold for around $350 "I believe" and it was in fairly good shape "just hadn't been run in a year", with fairly new chain ".404 pitch" and it had a 54" bar on it... SO bassically the C9g, in it's present shape, I honestly have no idea, but I'm not betting on a lot...

Thanks Again,
Greg

 

[GPH85]

I was able to copy my saws and paste my other post on another forum to this one, but only a few of the pics "ones with a thin black border" will showup to view their larger image...

OK, here goes nothing... The photo's are blurred the closer in I got, so I hope they turn out OK on here...

To start with here are some pictures of my C9... You will notice that it has a 36" bar with .404" pitch semi-chisel chain, but unfortunately it only cuts 32/33 inches due to the newer bar meant for the newer saws on an older saw... The C9 has had a new fuel line and filter put into the tank and new line from tank to carb... I also went ahead and rebuilt the carb with a major rebuild kit for the final fuel system repairs and replaced the air filter... Ignition wise I had to put a new plug wire on it and regap the points... Seal wise the only seal that has been replaced was the oil reservoir seal... It has the optional "flat style" muffler on it versus the "straight pipe" setup as well "to help my hearing"... Also some will notice that it has a C7 rewind housing "red in color vs. the green" and fan shroud due to the fact that when I got the saw, it was a parts saw...



This is my C91... It has a 30" bar with semi-chisel .404" pitch chain, but like the C9, it only actually cuts about 26/27 inches... This saw has both the optional rubber padded handlebar and the "flat style" muffler... You can probably notice that the C9 has the original style "green grip" handle... This saw is probably one of the best that I have ever bought off of eBay, due to the fact that all I had to do was put a little gas and oil in it to fire it up and keep it running... I did go ahead and replace the air filter though... I also went ahead and relubed the over running bearings in the starter drive and the sprocket/drum assembly with some nice synthetic grease, but other than relubing and minor clean up, it's all original...



This is my C7... It has a 21 or 22 inch bar on it "can't remember off the top of my head", with .404" pitch semi-chisel chain... It has had all of the fuel system components replaced "like I did the C9" and the carb has been rebuilt along with having the air filter replaced... It "like the C9" has also had the points regapped and a new plug wire installed... This saw "physically wise" is all original except for the bigger bolts on the rewind housing and of course the bar cover... I’ve got plenty of original bar covers, it's just that this one works fine and I can save the original styling covers for the final restorations... You will also notice that it has the "black grip" handlebar found on the C7, C7G, C71, C71G and C72...



This is my C5... It is actually what got me into collecting the C-Series collection... I found this in our sheds one day and found out from my father that it was my grandpa's saw that he used when he was cutting dogwood crossties... It is also the only saw that I have gone this far with the restoration efforts so far on... I have put all new seals, bearings, clutch shoes and sprocket, fuel lines and filter, carb rebuild, new air filter, rewind dogs, coil and points assembly and piston rings into it... I have even done a quick experimental paint job on it to see how the coloring would hold out "it appears to be getting darker instead of slightly lighter like I had originally hoped for"... I used a Duplicolor Light metallic blue on it... It's the closest match I could find at the time... It also has a 21 or 22 inch bar on it with .404" pitch full-chisel chain... When the chain is nice and sharp it will throw shavings out up to a foot long... A very nice chain...



This is my C51... I believe that it has either a 16 or 18 inch bar with the .404" pitch full-chisel chain... All I have done to this saw is replace the fuel line from the tank to carb and rebuilt the carb along with replacing the air filter... I have also like the others replaced the plug wire and regapped the points... It will fire up every time "doesn't matter how long it has been sitting" the first pull... It's actually the only saw that I have that will do this... All of my others require 2 - 4 pulls... You will probably notice that the air filter cover is missing it's original hold down, but other than this it's pretty much all original...



This is my C5/7 combo saw... As you can tell from first glance it is missing the rewind housing and fan shroud... This is due to the fact that the rewind spring broke and I have yet to get another one to replace it with... By C5/7 combo, I am referring to the fact that if you take a C7 crank and put it into the C5 engine, it will make one very torqy saw, this is due to the fact that you are getting a slightly higher compression from the .022" higher dome of the C5 piston, plus you have the longer stroke of the C7 crank... This saw has a 16 or 18" bar with .404" pitch full-chisel chain... It has also had the carb rebuilt, air filter changed and fuel line from the tank to carb replaced... It also has a handle bar "black grip" on it off of one of my C7 parts saws...



This is just a picture of my misc. parts that I have either collected or gotten from my two C7 parts saws... I also have some other "4 I think" extra bars of different lengths that are not pictured...



Also everyone of my saws have new bar nuts and lock washers along with 6 clutch shoes per saw... The basic C-Series saws were only suppost to have 3 "a money saver I guess" and only the gear driven versions would have the 6 shoe setup...

I would like apologize for the long posting and for any pics that don't load correctly, this is only the second time that I have tried this, but my first actually posting pics, so if they don't load correctly, if someone knows how, they are more than welcome to fix them, but it took me litterly hours to make this posting, so I hope it works out OK --- extremely slow internet ---

I hope there is some enjoyment to be had from these pics and if someone wants to, they are more than welcome to print them out for color scheme references or just whatever they may want to do with them

 

[ol'homey]

Greg,
What is the compression psi on the saw with the C7 crank and C5 jug and piston ? I'm surprised that with the longer throw of the C7 crank and the higher dome of the C5 piston that the piston doesn't hit the top of the jug. It must be awful close. Did you have to use extra thick gasket material for the base gasket? Since this is what i will most likely have to do to get my C72 running again I'd like to get as much of the details as possible. Do you have to run premium fuel in it so it doesn't ping ? How hard is it to pull over with that much compression ?
Sounds like my uncle was right 20 yrs. ago about the saw not being worth fooling with. The saw isn't even worth what it would cost to ship it to me. I bet that the C9 powerhead with that long bar,1/2" chain, and gear drive weigh over 50 lbs boxed and would have to go in 2 boxes. If I ever happen to be down there again I'll try to find out what happened to the saw. If by some miracle it's still there and I can get it for a couple of $ or less I'll bring it back with me and let you know. I'm not holding my breath though. Thanks for the pics, gotta love those old homies!

 

[GPH85]

Actually there's quite a bit of room between piston face and cylinder then you would ever think for... You can use the stock cylinder gaskets with no complications... I even use the split fire replacement plugs for the Champ CJ8's, which stick down in the cylinder maybe a tid bit more than the stock champions (J6J)... I found that CJ8's would work in about every small engine there is and that is why I used the splitfire replacement plug for them... As far as cranking goes, I never really noticed a whole lot of difference here... I'v had more problems trying to crank our Husky 44... In fact I'v hurt my wrist a few times with that saw... The C5 with C7 crank is about like trying to crank my Homelite C9 or C7 or any of my other C-Series saws... Here are the compression values of all of my saws ---

C9 = 145lbs
C91 = 140lbs
C7 = 155lbs
C5/7 = 160lbs
C51 = 125lbs
C5 = 115lbs

The reason why my C5 "with new rings" compression isn't really that high is because I put new rings in an old allready wore for the old rings bore, so I'm loosing compression around all of the imperfections in the cylinder...

I don't know if you or anyone else on here knows of this site, since Mike I don't believe is a member of this forum, but anyhow Mike Acres has put together a listing of all of the specs of most saws out there and if you go to the C51 or C51G Homelite saw, you will find a parts listings for the C51, C51G, C71, C71G, C91 and C91g, so you can compare the parts of the different saws... They all used the same connecting rod and "basic" cylinder with the minor bore change on the C9, C9G, C91 and C91G saws... The rest of the saws are all pretty much the same except for of course the cranks and carbs... His site is --- www.acresinternet.com/cscc.nsf ---

 

[ol'homey]

I like that C5/C7 combo. That's a compression ratio of 160/14.7= 10.8:1 ! That saw should have PLENTY of power.

 

[ol'homey]

Could you also do a C5/C9 combo ? IOW would a C5 jug and piston fit on a C9 bottom end ? The crank throw on a C9 is the same as a C7 and the connecting rod is also the same right? If C5 jug will physically bolt up to the C9 bottom end the compression should be the same as the C5/C7 combo right?

 

[GPH85]

Yes as stated it is one very torqy saw... It doesn't have as much power or torque as my C9 or C91, but it is more than the regular C7...

I don't remember what type of fuel I originally used in it... It has only been run once in the last 2 years and this was just to see if it would still crank... I use my C7, C9 and C91 regularly for logging, to preserve my other saws, plus there's the fact that the rewind spring broke in my C5/7 combo saw and hate switching the rewinds around all of the time just to use one saw... I used regular octane gas in it then with no problems, but I did at one time use mid octane in all of my small engines "chainsaws, mowers, weedeaters", you name it, I used it in it... I found that mid octane fuel would be burned less for the hrs used, but with todays prices and as much as I burn, I just use regular...

You could honestly use a .022" thinner cylinder gasket and get the same effect with the stock C7 piston or use the stock gasket and shave the cylinder seat surface down some... All your doing with the higher dome is moving the piston further up past the exhaust ports = more compression...

 

[GPH85]

Yes you could use the C9 crank if you had one, but C7's are more common saws... I don't believe there were ever that many C9's sold "same applys to the gear drives"... You would still have to use the C5 or C7 cylinder with the C5 piston though... The C9 used a bigger bore and slightly different carb...

To correct a previous statement --- The C-Series saws originally started out at $149.95 (C5 direct drive with 14" bar), not the 16" bar as previously stated, just incase anyone out there noticed

 

[ol'homey]

Greg,
So let's say a C9 has a scored jug. Can I take a jug and piston off a C5 and bolt it onto a C9 bottom end. I'm not talking about taking the C9 crank out and putting it in a C5case. I'm asking if I can take a C9 jug and piston off a C9 case and bolt a C5 jug and piston in it's place. In theory it should work. But I'm wondering if there are physical differences in the size of the C5 and C9 jugs in the mounting bolt area etc. that prevent you fitting a C5 jug to a C9 case?
If it will work then we can use the cheaper more common C5 jugs to save the C9 saws from the scrap heap. You would be going from 85cc to 77cc which would be a 9% decrease. But you would also be going from 140 to 160 psi compression which would be a 14% increase. You might not even notice much difference in power. If it would work I would do this swap in a heartbeat to save a c9 with a scored piston.

 

[GPH85]

Yes you could bolt the C5 cylinder up to the C9 bottom end... All of the C-Series saws parts are interchangeable with one another, infact they were pretty much cast from the same molds so to speak... The cylinder on the C9 is identical to the cylinder on the C5 or any other C-Series saw... The only difference is that the C9 cylinder is bored out bigger... If you remove the C9 cylinder and lay it side by side to the C5 cylinder, you will notice where they bassically took the C5 cylinder and just bored it out bigger...

However as previously stated, from what I could tell the C5 with C7 crank didn't quite have as much power as the stock C9... If you were doing this to save your C9 from complete retirement, then I don't guess there would be much harm in it... Now if you were doing this to be able to sale your C9, then I would make sure to let the buyer know that it has the C5 piston and cylinder, otherwise if he dissassembles it, well lets just say he could possibly get quite mad and you may hear back from him shortly