Hot Saw Parts
- Thread starter SAWFORD79
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Those who know are illiterate and can't post intelligent instructions on the WWWeb.
hardy-har-har!
Seriously, though, how difficult could it be? If you've got a machine shop, appropriate material, enough time, and most importantly, the aptitude/inventiveness you should be able to get one of those monsters cutting wood at an alarming rate. I don't mean to belittle the subject; I'm not talking about taking the Stihl Timbersports series by storm here, just getting something going. Something to improve on the next time, ad infinitum.
I get the impression there are a few folks here who might be willing to discuss some details in private, but are reluctant to do so in a public forum. Right, LJS?
Glen
hardy-har-har!
Seriously, though, how difficult could it be? If you've got a machine shop, appropriate material, enough time, and most importantly, the aptitude/inventiveness you should be able to get one of those monsters cutting wood at an alarming rate. I don't mean to belittle the subject; I'm not talking about taking the Stihl Timbersports series by storm here, just getting something going. Something to improve on the next time, ad infinitum.
I get the impression there are a few folks here who might be willing to discuss some details in private, but are reluctant to do so in a public forum. Right, LJS?
Glen
ccicora
Addicted to ArboristSite
There is more to the hotsaw than just slaping a bar and chain on the side of a motor. There is also several saftey issues. Lets just say that when one of the beasts come alive if it blows they could be pulling scrap metal out of you. I know a competitor named Matt from CT (a real pain in the ars). Use to run Mac's all the time for hotsaws. His hands are all twisted up from a hotsaw that when boom.
Just remeber you give someone advice and something happens and they get hurt you half to live with it also. The night before my axe cident. I was working on chopping technique with a friend. I now have a foot that reminds me with each stride.
Just remeber you give someone advice and something happens and they get hurt you half to live with it also. The night before my axe cident. I was working on chopping technique with a friend. I now have a foot that reminds me with each stride.
Arden Cogar Jr.
ArboristSite Operative
Sawford79,
I will be the first to admit that I know very little about hot saws. I know how to run them really bad, but I try. However, I do know a lot of people, including people on this board, that work on hot saws and do really competent work. EHP does excellent work and I think he's made some hotsaws from the frame up. Same goes for Tommy Fales and Dennis Cahoon - awesome work.
As I understand it, a good understanding of how small engines work helps a lot. A few guys that have done a lot of small engine work have built some very successful hot saws (James George comes to mind).
Possibly the best builder of hot saws ever, in my opinion, was and is Chauncey Varney. He was computer genius who worked for IBM. He got into chainsaw racing out of an interest for small engines. Some of the saws he built 20 years ago are still competitive today. Chauncey's study of how the engine worked was unparralled. I grew up in this sport and he was one of the two most intelligent men I've ever met who the circuit (the other was/is Dick Slingerland - he's so intelligent, it's scary).
I don't know if I should write this, but the story goes that Chauncy got tired of losing to Sven Johnson in the early eightys. Chauncy knew an awful lot about engines, but he failed to reckognize the importance of the filing on the chain. As I understood it, Chauncey took a picture of one of sven's chains while it was on his 250 Canam at a show in Vermont. He then blew up the pictures of the chain to poster size such that the tooth of the chain was about three feet across. From these poster size photos, Chauncey copied Sven's filing. As history goes, the next year Chauncey didn't get second place.
Good luck with learning about building the engines. Glens hit the nail on the head. An understanding of those areas will take you a long way. As for me, I can only tell storys.
all the best,
Jamie
I will be the first to admit that I know very little about hot saws. I know how to run them really bad, but I try. However, I do know a lot of people, including people on this board, that work on hot saws and do really competent work. EHP does excellent work and I think he's made some hotsaws from the frame up. Same goes for Tommy Fales and Dennis Cahoon - awesome work.
As I understand it, a good understanding of how small engines work helps a lot. A few guys that have done a lot of small engine work have built some very successful hot saws (James George comes to mind).
Possibly the best builder of hot saws ever, in my opinion, was and is Chauncey Varney. He was computer genius who worked for IBM. He got into chainsaw racing out of an interest for small engines. Some of the saws he built 20 years ago are still competitive today. Chauncey's study of how the engine worked was unparralled. I grew up in this sport and he was one of the two most intelligent men I've ever met who the circuit (the other was/is Dick Slingerland - he's so intelligent, it's scary).
I don't know if I should write this, but the story goes that Chauncy got tired of losing to Sven Johnson in the early eightys. Chauncy knew an awful lot about engines, but he failed to reckognize the importance of the filing on the chain. As I understood it, Chauncey took a picture of one of sven's chains while it was on his 250 Canam at a show in Vermont. He then blew up the pictures of the chain to poster size such that the tooth of the chain was about three feet across. From these poster size photos, Chauncey copied Sven's filing. As history goes, the next year Chauncey didn't get second place.
Good luck with learning about building the engines. Glens hit the nail on the head. An understanding of those areas will take you a long way. As for me, I can only tell storys.
all the best,
Jamie
ehp
Addicted to ArboristSite
LJS knows Dennis Cahoon, and he is the best man here to give you on what to do, he has built more bikesaws than me but I am trying more now,
I never liked them in the first place compared to a chainsaw but the way things are going now you have to build them , there was a day not that long ago that a 3120 nitrosaw would be close to the bike saws in 12 to 14 inch round wood, but not today , guys are alot better at operating them today and they have them working very well, but if you just think you need to bolt a bar on to a motor beleive me there is alot more that goes into it than that, vibration is the biggest thing you need to over come because if you have vibration and it is getting to the bar it doesnot matter because you will loose the chain as soon as you fire her up
I never liked them in the first place compared to a chainsaw but the way things are going now you have to build them , there was a day not that long ago that a 3120 nitrosaw would be close to the bike saws in 12 to 14 inch round wood, but not today , guys are alot better at operating them today and they have them working very well, but if you just think you need to bolt a bar on to a motor beleive me there is alot more that goes into it than that, vibration is the biggest thing you need to over come because if you have vibration and it is getting to the bar it doesnot matter because you will loose the chain as soon as you fire her up
ccicora
Addicted to ArboristSite
I know that after seeing some of those Bike saws run that there is waymore there than meets the eye... Thats why I have ordered a set of competition chaps. Get the right gear before its too late.
Ed,
What can you do to take out some of the vibration? (Talking the motor its self)
Ed,
What can you do to take out some of the vibration? (Talking the motor its self)
ehp
Addicted to ArboristSite
the easy thing to do is use a motor that doesnot vibrate much to start with, and on those rotax's stop your pipe from vibrating , look at Woodland's , his saw doesnot shake at all, that is one of the bigger problems with trying to build a bigger motor that has rpm's they shake to much
single vs. double
Can a single cylinder engine ever really be balanced? I know that a counter shaft balancer can be run off the crank but that takes away power. Why not run a 400cc twin cylinder? I seem to recall reading that perfect harmonic balance can be achieved with a twin and if the engine is custom built, weight would probably be in the ballpark of a big single.
Can a single cylinder engine ever really be balanced? I know that a counter shaft balancer can be run off the crank but that takes away power. Why not run a 400cc twin cylinder? I seem to recall reading that perfect harmonic balance can be achieved with a twin and if the engine is custom built, weight would probably be in the ballpark of a big single.
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
One of the few rules in most hotsaw competitions has to do with the maximum allowable number of cylinders, usually just one. Harley and car engines are for the "unlimited" classes and are too unwieldy for a single man to operate.
A 90° vee twin with a single crank throw is the only twin capable of perfect primary balance (every ¼ turn) in all planes. All other configurations will produce a rocking couple along the axis of the crank in one or more planes. Counterbalance shafts can alleviate the imbalances only to a certain extent, not entirely, and at a cost of weight, complexity, and (as mentioned) power.
Even an inline 4 is buzzy because of those rocking couples.
Glen
Even an inline 4 is buzzy because of those rocking couples.
Glen
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
One word.................................WANKEL!
wankel
Sorry, that qualifies as 3 cylinders. Bet it would be smoooth.
Sorry, that qualifies as 3 cylinders. Bet it would be smoooth.
ozflea
Good ol' BP Zoom 25-1
What constitutes the current big one in single cylinder chainsaws now days i,ve seen tons of footage of Rotax Roberts mean machine could there be something else just around the corner that does need a two man team built like the back of bus to haul it around and operate it One man single cylinder saws are the way to go.
Yes the likes of Predator blows them away but whose got the time or money to tackle something like that it's awesome.
Bob Cornwell
Yes the likes of Predator blows them away but whose got the time or money to tackle something like that it's awesome.
Bob Cornwell
ccicora
Addicted to ArboristSite
How can that be 3 cylinders if it is one piece of metal? Now you half to realize I don't know much about these motors...
Marky Mark
Hell's Kitchen Trapper
Here's a little one by Bafoon. Take a closer look and you can see one of his 500's. I raced him with a Solo 690 tha creamed them all. Of course that was at Dennis's house. Hell I even bea Tom Fales at one cut. Gypo on the other hand cut out.
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
Chris. The rotary engine uses 3 sided almost triangular lobes to serve as the equivelent of pistons. At any given time some part of the otto cycle is taking place in 3 locations in a rotary, hence the 'cylinder' count.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine7.htm
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine7.htm
ccicora
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sedan,
Your missing my point... Its one piece of metal or one rotary. Common this may be the future of hotsaws.... And we are only allowed one piston.
Your missing my point... Its one piece of metal or one rotary. Common this may be the future of hotsaws.... And we are only allowed one piston.
sedanman
Just cut the piano!!
Chris, I didn't miss your point, I know it's only one piece. Most sanctioning (SCCA, etc.) bodies that have had to deal with issue reason that there are 3 combustion chambers even though that's not technically correct either. All agree that the steady stream of power pulses is an advantage over a reciprocating piston engine.
cylinders
Maybe it would be better to say it has 3 combustion chambers. Each flat of the lobe is a combustion chamber, where as each cylinder of a reciprocating piston motor is a combustion chamber.
Oh, just go back to how it works. :
Maybe it would be better to say it has 3 combustion chambers. Each flat of the lobe is a combustion chamber, where as each cylinder of a reciprocating piston motor is a combustion chamber.
Oh, just go back to how it works. :
