How do you guys bib very large jobs

[cjohnson]

I have an opportunity to bid on a large clear cut project along a river. They want to have all trees removed 16' back form the bank on both sides of waterway most trees are 6" dia some as big as 20" dia very very dense woods can't hardly walk through it. Way to many trees to count it is approx 3 tenths of a mile long on both sides about 15 trees hanging over water growing horizontal. Most of the trees are about 25' tall. Trees can just be pushed in pile and burned at later date. How would you bid that kind of project would be my first one that large. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Newfie]

Never mind the bidding, who wants you to do this? What kind of environmental restrictions are you going to get snagged on? In my neck of the woods you don't cut near water of any kind without all kinds of applications and plans etc, to show how you are not going to affect water quality. Sounds like an iffy proposition at best.

 

[cjohnson]

wow never thought of that thanks. The job is for the county though and the should know if it can be done or not. but i am going to ask alot of ? about that

 

[treeclimber165]

You bid it just like every other job. If you cannot visualize the entire job, break it down into portions that you CAN visualize. Take a small section and determine how long it will take your crew to remove the trees INCLUDING ALL HAULING AND DISPOSAL!. Getting the stuff on the ground is the easy part. Then multiply it out taking into account any particularly difficult trees and the extra time involved for those.
I find that breaking it down into one day sections is easiest for me. If you have efficient equipment to move the debris to the burn pile, maybe figure how much you could cut before lunch in one day and allot the rest of the day for moving that much debris. Even if you do not perform the job in that manner, it may be a good starting point for estimation purposes.

 

[treeman82]

I would suggest... that you look into renting a medium sized excavator with a hydraulic thumb. Have 1 guy go through the place slashing the trees down, and come back with the excavator to pile up the trees. After you have them piled up, you should be able to skid them out with a skidder, or dozer with a cable on the back. 3 person operation.

 

[Stumper]

Brian's suggestions about visualizing a days work at a time is excellent. If you are at all like me you will tend to be overly optimistic on how quickly you will be able to wrap it all up. After you figure your number of days/man hours per Brian's suggestion I would suggest that you up it by 50%-100%.

 

[monkeypuzzle]

HIGH

 

[TREETX]

Manhour, manhour, manhour.

Whose idea is it to cut an SMZ??

Reprarian zones are usually protected. Maybe my minds eye is just wrong.

Manhour plus equipment plus kaos factor.

.02

 

[Newfie]

The job is for the county though and the should know if it can be done or not.

Don't count on that being the case. Just be real careful, you don't need to get hung out to dry on this one. I would want to see all of the necessary permits first. Municipalities can be some of the worst offenders of environmental law, ranging from improper disposal of waste oil to draining roads into wetlands without permit.

Like others have suggested bid high and if you get the job, you hopefully have yourself covered. Contact your DEP and see what info they can make available about working in riparian/wetlands and the necessary mitigation measures needed. That might have a huge impact on your bid. Half a mile of hay bales and silt fences will cost some $$.

Any firewood market for the trees? You may be able to get a firewood processor to take the stuff or buy it. That could help with your bid as some profit protection.

 

[TREETX]

Thanks newfie - suppose I should read

Another thing I factor in on jobs like this is that it may take 30 - 90 days to get payment. I always ask when payment will be made. 90 days is fine for me but I tack on a hidden fee to make taking a dent in my cashflow worth it.

 

[Menchhofer]

We usually use different size bibs. The babies naturally use smaller bibs than the 2-3 year olds.

 

[xander9727]

With the cold weather I would recommend Carhartt insulated bibs.

 

[murphy4trees]

What about renting a skid steer with a brush cutter on the front... The good ones can tear up 6-9" trees and make them disappear.... turn them to dust.
Around here they cost 500/day plus delivery... One day would be all you'd need I would guess.
That could save huge time on the little stuff and make the bigger trees easier to work on.
You might also consider using some kind of veggie oil for chain oil... maybe canola oil...
God Bless,
Daniel

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've found that we cannot compete with the mechanized people on work like this.

Look into salvage logs, pulp and renting a hyrdostumper to reduce your cost. sounds like a lot of the stuff could be mowed with a big Rayco. You can do a couple acre a day with one of those. Last I checked on renting one it was like 1400/day for the machine with mower and stumper heads, not including delivery and replacement teeth.

I agree with the others on the possible liablites and set-up costs involved. I looked at the map and the both Brush Creek and the Blue River look like they would be protected waterways.

 

[NeTree]

Just curious.... anybody ever hear of EROSION??? I see a bunch of houses that'll be like 50 feet from the water now, and 5 feet from the water in 20 years.

Erik
[email protected]

 

[YUKON 659]

Menchhofer & xander9727, I guess these guys don't have much of a sense of humor!! I usually "bib" my very large jobs with very large "bibs"

Jeff

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You would expect me to catch something like that?

 

[cjohnson]

Talked to the county more today and turns out this section isn't part of the river yet it is considered a drainage ditch. The farmers upstream are worried about the cost of clearing all those trees 15-20 years from now when they are larger and want to take care of the problem now. (Their words not mine). They have had problems with other sections of this ditch getting plugged with dead trees and limbs also beavers like these small trees for their dams which cause fields to flood.

I appreciate all the advice, there are alot of things I never thought of and I will be asking some more questions of the county before turning in my bid. Sounds like they may accept bid in the 10k-14k range But I will need to see some proof that it is ok with the DNR and other agencies. I figure it will take me and my partner 16 days to do job.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Look into the pulp chip end of it, depending on the type of wood there is there. Once you lock your bid in contact a forester on salvage values. Maybe you can make a little more.

 

[treeist]

I agree, I did a large job like that. all other bibers thought the wood would be a major hassle. When the trees came down and the self loader log truck showed and loaded the logs. The client bought back their own trees from me on the spot.