i have a question about climbing harnesses

[voxac30dude]

ok so i have 2 harnesses, i have a black diamond rock climbing harness and a buckingham harness with no leg loops. is it safe for me to use my rock climbing harness to climb trees with? where would i clip my carabiner on the rock climbing harness(bottom or top tie in point)?

 

[lego1970]

Yea, but it's not near as comfortable to sit in for long periods, there is no side rings or loops for your lanyard, the weight of the chainsaw will cause the harness to dig into you, plus it won't last long. Put your carabiner where you normally would. When I started climbing I started out with a REI brand rock climbing harness and was relieved when I bought my first tree saddle. I would just use the Buckingham if I were you. Good luck.

 

[treevet]

Neither are appropriate for tree work. The no leg strap one is outdated and I have seen a number of beginners do what is commonly referred to by old salts as the "crab".

This is where the saddle slides up under the armpits and the poor newb spins around helplessly unable to move until the laughter stops and the poor soul is mercifully brought down.

 

[lego1970]

Neither are appropriate for tree work. The no leg strap one is outdated and I have seen a number of beginners do what is commonly referred to by old salts as the "crab".

This is where the saddle slides up under the armpits and the poor newb spins around helplessly unable to move until the laughter stops and the poor soul is mercifully brought down.

I know you have a lot more years experience then I do, but he can get by with the climbing harness, and having no leg straps is not reason enough to not use the Buckingham. Weaver still sells new saddles w/o leg straps. I used a saddle for a couple years without leg straps and the saddle I have now, I keep the leg straps very loose. I know two really good climbers that still use saddles with no leg straps. The seat rides up every now and then, but it's not that big of deal.

 

[treevet]

I know you have a lot more years experience then I do, but he can get by with the climbing harness, and having no leg straps is not reason enough to not use the Buckingham. Weaver still sells new saddles w/o leg straps. I used a saddle for a couple years without leg straps and the saddle I have now, I keep the leg straps very loose. I know two really good climbers that still use saddles with no leg straps. The seat rides up every now and then, but it's not that big of deal.

I think like you said that likely it is ok with and EXPERIENCED climber, but a new climber without supervision might not be the best idea. I have shown up on jobs back in my partying days (forgot my saddle) and taken a pair of handsnips and a piece of climbing line and MADE a saddle and climbed on it all day. I climbed for decades without leg straps.

 

[lego1970]

I think like you said that likely it is ok with and EXPERIENCED climber, but a new climber without supervision might not be the best idea. I have shown up on jobs back in my partying days (forgot my saddle) and taken a pair of handsnips and a piece of climbing line and MADE a saddle and climbed on it all day. I climbed for decades without leg straps.

Ok, I hear ya. Point taken.

 

[treevet]

Ok, I hear ya. Point taken.

 

[beowulf343]

Hey vocax, I had no idea treevet was a saddle salesman. Your buckingham will probably work just fine for you until you decide to try a more advanced saddle. Like said above, thousands of trees are being climbed every day with a simple buttstrap saddle and the majority of us probably started with them.
Crabbing (as treevet called it) can happen. However, it is not a common occurance and there are things you can do to help prevent it. First off, cinch your saddle down tight. I usually wore my buttstrap cinched just below my belt on my jeans. Cinch down the saddle pretty good and the pant's belt will make a bit of a bulge that will help prevent the saddle from sliding up. Secondly, the most common instance where your saddle will slide up is when you are standing either on your hooks or a branch and your lanyard is running from your upper d's around the tree at chest height or higher. You can notice this while standing on the ground. Run your lanyard high around the tree and then lean back in the saddle. You will see a space suddenly appear between the front of your body and the saddle and you can feel your saddle want to climb without you. Take a step up, do a hip shake and pull the saddle down. But fairly easily preventable by not throwing your lanyard too far up. Keep it around the waist area. Also if you spike out, your saddle will want to jump up your body, but this is simply because once again you are putting all your weight on a high lanyard. Even this is not all that hard to get out of if wearing spikes. Once you are actually tied in and sitting in the saddle, I've never seen a crab happen simply because you now have all your weight on the lower d's. Simply remember that a pull upward on the upper d's will lift your saddle so climb in a way that minimizes that.

 

[treevet]

orrrrrrrrr......ya could just spring for a new saddle. Gottem on sale for $ninety nine ninety nine this week only :rockn:

 

[blewgrass]

what kind of black diamond harness do you have? I'm a little confused by the "bottom and top tie in point". The older alpine bod harnesses have a loop that comes from between you legs and then the waist strap, both of these should be clipped. Other black diamonds have a small sewn runner that connects the two tie in points, you should tie through this, or again, through both tie in points if this runner is not there.

 

[voxac30dude]

it's a black diamond momentum harness.

 

[Fireaxman]

I think like you said that likely it is ok with and EXPERIENCED climber, but a new climber without supervision might not be the best idea. ...

Here's $0.02 on Treevet's side. I loaned my old buckingham butt strap saddle to an acquaintance who wanted to learn DdRT. Sure enough, he fell through the butt strap. The saddle caught him about half way up his chest and he was unable to reach his Blakes hitch. He was learning "Low", and we got him down OK, but he had some nasty rope burns.

I climbed in that saddle for years with no problems, did not even think someone might fall through the butt strap like that. But it happened. I think it is more critical DdRT as opposed to spurs, more weight on the saddle and harder to get weight off the saddle.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I crabbed once in my old buckingham saddle. I was on a rec climb and just learning how to move around the tree without spikes. It sucked. Had to have my bro rescue me. The possibility is there with those old saddles without legstraps but most of us learned on them and came out just fine. The main thing is to make sure you have good supervision while you're learning. If you're thinking about doing this for a living then you might want to think about dropping some coin on a new saddle. My new buckingham with a nice back pad, padded independent leg straps and floating D was only a buck fifty.

 

[voxac30dude]

thanks for the great input guys. i have my eyes set on an actual arborist harness. it's either the petzl Sequoya or the Buckingham Deluxe Master Arborist Saddle

 

[voxac30dude]

oh one more thing, anyone think this might be a good saddle for the money? it's $150 shipped to me in hawaii from wesspur.com also are there cheaper arborist sites then wespur?

 

[WolverineMarine]

I like it..I have a similar floating D-ring saddle made by Weaver..I do line clearance work full time and trimming on the side..I know its all about personal prefference, but I like individual leg loops and opposed to the big strap on the legs..I went to ACRT's basic arborist class a couple years ago so we got to check out about a 1/2 dozen different saddles and that worked best for me..I spend at least an hr up there at a time..and the wide back is a must..for me..total mobility and flexibility are the most critical features I need in a saddle..just my 2 cents..

 

[outofmytree]

I run a Petzl Seqouia and a Buckingham Traverse depending on the type of work to be done. Leg straps allow quicker movement, a seat allows more comfort when you stop.

A question for the OP. What sort of climbing are you doing? Is it work or recreational. If its climbing for fun or perhaps deadwooding a few trees for self/family/friends then my advice would be the Seqouia and a handsaw. If you are going "pro", then after getting some hands on training for this particular discipline I would go Buckingham as a simple, bulletproof newbie saddle.

 

[Blakesmaster]

oh one more thing, anyone think this might be a good saddle for the money? it's $150 shipped to me in hawaii from wesspur.com also are there cheaper arborist sites then wespur?

That's pretty much my exact saddle and I'm happy with it, especially for the price. The only difference between that one and mine is that I don't have the full butt strap, I have the independent leg straps.

 

[treevet]

That looks like an acceptable saddle to start off with if you think you will like the sliding D. Sometime you might want to add a slide on suspender set up as they are nice when you have to send up a big saw in the tree for bigger cuts.

I just recently bought the Buck. Pinnacle Classic with optional extra padding and optional suspenders (about $400.). It is real nice for long climbs. It is super comfortable but a little time consuming to put on and take off so most of the time I just throw on a basic Buck. saddle with no frills like the one you pictured. I don't think I would like to step into a saddle tho so mine has double D's.