I Need A Little Advice

[YUKON 659]

I've got a little situation that I would like to get some input on. Last year I hooked up with a climber to help me out with some jobs when my son was unable to work with me. I was also helping him out with some chipping on a few of his jobs...he doesn't own a chipper or chip truck yet. We were paying each other by the hour.
Here's the situation.... he's still working with me (quite regularly) but he doesn't want to exchange money this year, rather just trade hours for hours. Do you think an hour of his climbing is equal to an hour of me, my 3/4 ton truck and my 6" chipper? Or visa versa? Keep in mind, I can't do most of my jobs without him. He can still do his without me. What do you think?

Thanks, Jeff

 

[Newfie]

Nope, not even close. I would say 2.5-1 or even 3-1 ratio in your favor.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Hmmm, I dunno. I almost wanna say 50/50.

 

[YUKON 659]

I should have mentioned he does have a landscape trailer that he hauls brush and wood away with when I don't work with him. I'm sure it is quite a time savings for him when I chip it. I figure three of his trailer loads could be chipped into a single load in my truck.

Jeff

 

[fwf]

...We were paying each other by the hour.

Thanks, Jeff

Are you currently paying equal hourly rates. If so, you have already established an even trade, if not, go with the current hourly rate ratio.

 

[kf_tree]

what's your gut tell you? are you happy with an hour for an hour? does he bust his ass and produce for you? the only thing i don't like is you have maintanence and fuel cost's beyond the time you trade.

but no one here giving advice knows how badly you need a part time climber. so after you recieve all the advice, you still need to ask yourself is the trade off fair for the two of you.

 

[Newfie]

what's your gut tell you? are you happy with an hour for an hour? does he bust his ass and produce for you? the only thing i don't like is you have maintanence and fuel cost's beyond the time you trade.

but no one here giving advice knows how badly you need a part time climber. so after you recieve all the advice, you still need to ask yourself is the trade off fair for the two of you.

Good points.

Jeff, I also think you need to consider how much more profitable you make his operation by making quick work of clean-up and make sure he understand that as well. When working with or for others, the money exchanged or trading of labor has always been contingent upon services rendered and euipment supplied.

If he's a decent guy he will be willing to work out something that is equitable.

 

[Lumberjack]

Use the ratio of yalls hourly rates. Seems logical to me.

 

[a_lopa]

65/35 your way your paying fuel and maintaning equipment and outlayed the $$$

its a hard one

 

[Lumberjack]

If we may know, what do yall charge per hour?

If we charge a certain amount for each hour of work, and you wanted to barter wouldnt you compare hourly rates and go from there? Just because your going from cash to services doesnt mean its not an equal trade.

Go by the hourly rates. If he charges 25 an hour and you charge 75 an hour, then 1 of your hours for him is valued at 3 times the value of his. Therefore he would work 3 hours to your one.

 

[treeman82]

You're a 3/4 ton pick-up towing a 6" chipper. How good a climber is he?

If you had a big ass chip truck with an 18" chipper, then that would be a little different.

 

[YUKON 659]

Thanks for the input. He's a good climber and and one hell of a worker!!! As soon as he's out of the tree, off comes the climbing gear and he's draggin' brush and moving wood. He'll even grab a rake if necessary. I guess the way I'm looking at it is...maybe my truck and chipper are worth a little more than his climbing but, without him I can't make a dime on some jobs!!! I'm saving him some money and he's making me a lot!!! I guess for now hour for hour will be good ...maybe with a few extra bucks thrown in for gas.

Jeff

 

[Newfie]

You're a 3/4 ton pick-up towing a 6" chipper. How good a climber is he?

If you had a big ass chip truck with an 18" chipper, then that would be a little different.

Why? Did Yukon pick up his truck and chipper for free? He needs to get more of a return on his investment than just his time.

 

[Lumberjack]

Hourly rate, people your making this tooooo hard.

If yukon charges 75 bucks an hour and the climber charges 25 an hour thats a 3:1 ratio. Money is money, no need in getting all technical making this way harder than it is.

Money is money, so use the hourly rates!

 

[treeman82]

No he didn't pick them up for free, however that rig will command a good deal less per hour than a good 18" machine and a big chip truck.

 

[Ekka]

Also look at it this way, if he didn't use you to chip what would he be paying elsewhere?

What is the rate of a rental chipper and tip truck per day from a hire company? And that's without a worker to drive it, use it and groundy for him too.

Around here you'll pay $120 a day for a truck and $250 a day for a chipper and min $20 per hour for some-one to drive it.

Around here a 6" chipper and small truck with one bloke goes for around $60 to $80 per hour. Also the operator owns the chip. So if you do a sweetheart deal with the customer keeping the chip you better factor that in as the operator wont be missing out on his $'s for it.

I think you both need to write down on a piece of paper what you think your worth and what you think each other is worth ... then flip them over and discuss it. He might think your worth $30 per hour and you think your worth $70 and vice versa if you get what I mean.

 

[Newfie]

Hourly rate, people your making this tooooo hard.

If yukon charges 75 bucks an hour and the climber charges 25 an hour thats a 3:1 ratio. Money is money, no need in getting all technical making this way harder than it is.

Money is money, so use the hourly rates!

I hear ya Carl. I agree and have been trying to explain why it should be that way. Some don't seem to place a lot of value on the services of machinery and the expenses that go along with it.

 

[Newfie]

Jeff, maybe I'm assuming to much but it seems that your dilemna stems from an arrangement where the climber has valued his services above or on par with yours?

Let him go back to the days of hauling brush all day in his trailer and see if his tune changes.

I would rather stay home and go broke than bust my a$$ and go broke.

 

[jemclimber]

I think that there is one other thing to consider. Does your climber show up with all his equipment (his bull lines and such) and saws to work on your jobs? I know my saws and equipment run about 5k to 7K, plus the fact that the climber should be making more than a ground person so the ratio might be closer to 50/50 than you think. Also does he show up with his truck and trailer to help haul wood? Just try to see the whole picture to see the real monetary value each person brings to the table.

 

[darkstar]

if you are making good money seems fair .... thats what really counts ...