I'm tired of my taughtline lockin up....My latest idea on a "climbing knot"

[l2edneck]

Ok so this is my try to keep from buying or going "new skool"

its inevitable 20 yrs in the buisness,i know what works.I am however gettin old and would like to be safer as well as lazier.

This will be my next attempt at replacing my "knot" with hardware on a climbers budget.(just wanna say the taughtline has yet to fail me,it will forever be my knot)

but im tired and i wanna try somethin new...I have attached a phenomal drawing created by me to try to work out some kinks and imperfecshunz yall can find.
Believe me i will try my method out whether yall tell me it wont work or knot.(a lil pun for the mood)

Just be honest and please let me know if you do it,have done it, or are awaiting my test results.

As always be safe,fear the juice and happy urban felling....

(BTW i hope no l2edneck tree cutters were injured or died following in my footsteps or attempting to recreate the happiness that is me)

Nick

p.s. rep a cat much as you see fit....

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

How about some pix.

 

[Nailsbeats]

Just get on with a new (closed) system already. The tautline is a dead horse.
:deadhorse:

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

Good lord man.......That drawing is almost ####agraphic...lmao
20 years in the business. There's all kinds of pics all over this site of good climbing systems.
I'm a nooby to climbing and can post a pic of my rig if you like. It works great for me but I don't have the experience you have either of actually working in all kinds of situations.

I'm 55 and weak knee'd I find a foot ascender most energy saving and I'm getting ready to set up a rope walker system so I can use both legs to ascend. There's a nice video of it on you tube, by Gerald Beranek. It's called the double rope walker system, pretty neat system, I'm anxious to try it.

It truly is the way to go for the older climber from what I can tell. I like Gerald Beranek and can tell he is a very intelligent climber and trust his advice implicidly. I was going to post the link to the video but could no longer find it.
I do have it downloaded to my computer. I pretty sure there's a link to it on one of the threads in this forum somewhere. Maybe someone can point you to it should you be interested. Goodluck

Here's the Beranek video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-_GUggGMmM

I use Jerry Beranek's Double Line Rope Walker system. I'm still refining the details but here's my version:
(rahtreelimbs has got me working on using a splice instead of a termination knot)

CMI foot ascenders. Left re-rigged with bungie and chicken strap added.

Right positioned normally.

Left positioned at knee level.

Bungie from left CMI fastened through biner and clipped to standing part.

Running part through both CMI ascenders.

Complete system - just like walking up the rope - THANKS MR. BERANEK!
Used the CMI's because they don't come off the rope accidentally! And, their 'teeth' are easier on the rope.

 

[treeseer]

The tautline is a dead horse.

My tautline gallops daily, does not lock itself up in the stall, and eats no oats.

Are you tying it right? The downward turns loop from the right, the upward turns loop from the left.

Hey 12ed, I may be installing a lightning system in largo later this month--pm me if you want to sub climbing and help install.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

"If you aren't going all the way, why go at all?" - Joe Namath

 

[arborist]

My tautline gallops daily, does not lock itself up in the stall, and eats no oats.

Are you tying it right? The downward turns loop from the right, the upward turns loop from the left.

I'm going to guess he's using 3 strand rope still.Thus the reason for it binding.
oh boy,I don't miss those days.

From the tautline to one of the most advanced rope climbing systems in only 4 postings!



There is so much to learn about ropes, knots and devices to make the leap between the two that it's scary.

yeah.not really scary though as its very,very hard to teach old school climbers new methods and have them actually use them anyway lol.
but yeah.bringing up some of these methods right now is pointless imho.

l2edneck,
try a short hank of 1/2 arbormaster.(like in the discount rope section of wesspur for example)
next learn the "blakes" knot.
enter a 10' tree for practice.
if your not totally blown away by the difference,and ease of use between your current system,I'l be floored.
you will thank me if you try this.sure,you will have a difficult time learning to get used to smaller 1/2 rope(if you are in fact still on 3 strand 9/16) and learning to trust a different knot.
but the newer rope and blakes will bring you up to at least "new old school" lol.
give her a try,you will be happy you did.
the knot is better,and the rope is stronger,and smoother.
you will enjoy climbing so much more once you get used to it.

"If you aren't going all the way, why go at all?" - Joe Namath

in this case.one word:
safety.

 

[arborist]

if you plan on using a petzal micrograb to climb with,then what are your plans once working your way down? remove it first and tie old trusty?

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I'm going to guess he's using 3 strand rope still.Thus the reason for it binding.
oh boy,I don't miss those days.



yeah.not really scary though as its very,very hard to teach old school climbers new methods and have them actually use them anyway lol.
but yeah.bringing up some of these methods right now is pointless imho.

l2edneck,
try a short hank of 1/2 arbormaster.(like in the discount rope section of wesspur for example)
next learn the "blakes" knot.
enter a 10' tree for practice.
if your not totally blown away by the difference,and ease of use between your current system,I'l be floored.
you will thank me if you try this.sure,you will have a difficult time learning to get used to smaller 1/2 rope(if you are in fact still on 3 strand 9/16) and learning to trust a different knot.
but the newer rope and blakes will bring you up to at least "new old school" lol.
give her a try,you will be happy you did.
the knot is better,and the rope is stronger,and smoother.
you will enjoy climbing so much more once you get used to it.

"If you aren't going all the way, why go at all?" - Joe Namath
in this case.one word:
safety.

:agree2:
Good advice! LOW & SLOW! Safety IS ... "going all the way"!!!

If you're going to get "a short hank of 1/2 arbormaster" as arborist advises, also get a copy of Jeff Jepson's "The Tree Climbers Companion" It will really help with the safe transition to a new system.

 

[treeseer]

I'm perpetually amazed at the fascination with minute details about climbing gear and techniques and the relative disregard of details about tree care.



Seems a little flipfloppy to me--what are we, nouveau climbers or professional arborists?

I subbed work to a guy yesterday and watched with great pain as he dict around with throwbag and throwline forever to get up a small tree because he would not use a ladder. New skool is WAAAAAY overrated.

Dynos soar!

:blob6:

 

[arborist]

I'm perpetually amazed at the fascination with minute details about climbing gear and techniques and the relative disregard of details about tree care.



Seems a little flipfloppy to me--what are we, nouveau climbers or professional arborists?

I subbed work to a guy yesterday and watched with great pain as he dict around with throwbag and throwline forever to get up a small tree because he would not use a ladder. New skool is WAAAAAY overrated.

Dynos soar!

:blob6:

lol.I dunno,as i haven't tried all this new school stuff myself.(1/2 16 strand and blakes took some adjustment and still seems "new" to me lol though i switched from 3 strand to modern rope and to the blakes back in 99)
but i was just looking at this and thinking,well i could be at the top of a full size sugar maple by the time someone sets this up:

perhaps it's not as complicated as it looks.but still.i dunno,i don't find climbing up limbs and hip thrusting up a tree difficult nor time consuming.
I agree,doesn't seem like we are missing the boat when it comes to some of this new stuff treeseer.

 

[treeslayer]

Ok so this is my try to keep from buying or going "new skool"

its inevitable 20 yrs in the buisness,i know what works.I am however gettin old and would like to be safer as well as lazier.

This will be my next attempt at replacing my "knot" with hardware on a climbers budget.(just wanna say the taughtline has yet to fail me,it will forever be my knot)

but im tired and i wanna try somethin new...I have attached a phenomal drawing created by me to try to work out some kinks and imperfecshunz yall can find.
Believe me i will try my method out whether yall tell me it wont work or knot.(a lil pun for the mood)

Just be honest and please let me know if you do it,have done it, or are awaiting my test results.

As always be safe,fear the juice and happy urban felling....

(BTW i hope no l2edneck tree cutters were injured or died following in my footsteps or attempting to recreate the happiness that is me)

Nick

p.s. rep a cat much as you see fit....

Does Dan know you have his crayons?
All I want to know is if you know the one armed stripper there in Clearwater, (outside Daytona, right?)
A REAL pretty blonde girl?
She rocked my world one night during hurricane Charlie/Francis.

 

[treemandan]

Just get on with a new (closed) system already. The tautline is a dead horse.
:deadhorse:

awww man, why you gotta be whippin on ole' Bessie?

 

[treeseer]

perhaps it's not as complicated as it looks.but still.i dunno,i don't find climbing up limbs and hip thrusting up a tree difficult nor time consuming.
I agree,doesn't seem like we are missing the boat when it comes to some of this new stuff treeseer.

Yeah that arboriculture boat can go down the river and cross the ocean while the "progressive climbers" are still on shore diddling with their 'biners. It's about the TREES, not the climbing styles.

Tried the blakes but never saw/felt the advantage to make up for the extra twists and turns.

 

[l2edneck]

arborist:if you plan on using a petzal micrograb to climb with,then what are your plans once working your way down? remove it first and tie old trusty?

Great question and not something i had not thought of....ty.

The only thing i could say is possibly figure a way to carry the tool to undo the micro and have it stay with the clip.(not to mention the tiny screw that holds it together) Maybe work with petzl to design a quick release that would be tool less and still not jeopardize safety.I would be using my lanyard to keep me tied in before attempting to undo my micro which is what everybody in a perfect world does to eliminate the chance of gaffing out or slip and fall in a non spike situation.(double fall arrest/double T.I.P.'s)

in laymans:

i would have to first run the rope thru the petzl clip to begin using as a taughtline,then as i encountered limbs on the way down i would have to pull the entire lifeline back thru the micro ,reset and pull it back thru to create my taughtline again.Thus losing precious time and energy which both are crucial to effectiveness and safety.

please respond if this is indeed what you mean aswell as any suggestions on how to correct.

Just to let yall know my taughtline locked up again today due to excessive sap on the rope from tuesdays pine removals.Good thing i was just about on the ground and was able to "clip out" and untie the knot.

I am using 1/2 16 strand arborplex,and i tie my taught 2 under 2 over with my tail from my snap ring with 2 half hitches that feed my tail to the right after buckled.

please enlighten me on that jumbled fn mess....no disrespect but that looks like way to much for me to carry,let alone try to figure out 40 feet in the air..

Just my opinion....

 

[treeseer]

I am using 1/2 16 strand arborplex,and i tie my taught 2 under 2 over with my tail from my snap ring with 2 half hitches that feed my tail to the right after buckled.

I think we found the problem...you were taught the wrong tautline hitch.

Have you tried 3 under? On a slender rope I sometimes go 4.

And the key--are the overs going in the opposite direction than the unders?
Made a huge difference for me--now it locks up about as often as my chain comes off the chainsaw (and for the same reason--operator failure).

Any knot will not work well when rope is sappy, and arborplex holds more sap than smoother ropes. Upgrade?

Also, check the ropesaver threads--using one means no sap on rope.

 

[tree MDS]

I'm perpetually amazed at the fascination with minute details about climbing gear and techniques and the relative disregard of details about tree care.



Seems a little flipfloppy to me--what are we, nouveau climbers or professional arborists?

I subbed work to a guy yesterday and watched with great pain as he dict around with throwbag and throwline forever to get up a small tree because he would not use a ladder. New skool is WAAAAAY overrated.

Dynos soar!

:blob6:

Rep coming in seer.

That was some good $#!t right there, LOL. I know exactly what you mean, I built my little tree service from the ground up, starting with a welder, a sandblaster and an old truck, climbed whatever came my way as good as any or better than most, and the taughtline served me well all the way.

concentrate on what yer supposed to be doing in the tree, leave the gadgets alone, having the most fanciest, complicated climbing system will not make you a better climber automatically as some seem to think! takes more than just talk.

Dynos soar baby, lol!

Grrr... they wont let me rep, oh well, its the thought.

 

[arbor pro]

Does Dan know you have his crayons?

LOL Good one.

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

...

please enlighten me on that jumbled fn mess....no disrespect but that looks like way to much for me to carry,let alone try to figure out 40 feet in the air..

Just my opinion....

:agree2:
You are right! That was an old pic - it's a lot simpler now, thanks to rahtreelimbs advice. But, it wasn't the point of the post - The Beranek Double Line Rope Walker was the point - in response to treenoob's post. However, if you truly want an explanation go to the thread that explains it and the solution to "that jumbled fn mess": http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1688671#post1688671
Here's how it looks now:

Anyway, treeseer seems to have the right advice for you.

 

[D Mc]

I'm perpetually amazed at the fascination with minute details about climbing gear and techniques and the relative disregard of details about tree care.



Seems a little flipfloppy to me--what are we, nouveau climbers or professional arborists?

I subbed work to a guy yesterday and watched with great pain as he dict around with throwbag and throwline forever to get up a small tree because he would not use a ladder. New skool is WAAAAAY overrated.

Dynos soar!

:blob6:

Yeah that arboriculture boat can go down the river and cross the ocean while the "progressive climbers" are still on shore diddling with their 'biners. It's about the TREES, not the climbing styles.

Tried the blakes but never saw/felt the advantage to make up for the extra twists and turns.

The message these two posts send is way wrong. There is so much to be learned in our field, in all aspects, that to limit one's development is doing just that.

The advancements in rope climbing equipment and techniques are indeed advancements. Just because you have been doing it one way for a long time doesn't make it the best way. I shouldn't need to cite examples here.

I have been in this business longer than most. The first 30 years was all old school. I know it well, better than most. I know what it can and cannot do. You are only too old to learn if you believe that to be true.

My advice, keep on learning. The information is out there.

OP, Regarding tautlines, remember they are clove hitches with extra wraps. A Prussic knot is a girth hitch with extra wraps. A clove hitch will roll, a girth hitch will not. Also a Prussic can be loosened with one thumb from one hand, a tautline cannot. Just some thoughts.

Dave