Hello, first off my name is Ryan. I live in Michigan and am 15. My goal in life is to move to Oregon and become a cutter in a logging company. On the side maybe the national guard. I really dont know the first thing to get that goal. Any help would be nice. I hope to learn alot from you guys. Thanks alot!
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Spotted Owl
ArboristSite Guru
Best thing I can tell ya is, figure out a new goal and path in life.
The cutters around here in my part of Oregon are not and haven't been working steady or at all for the last couple months. Guys are starting to sell and part out their saws for extra cash.
The mills that are still running are only buying from the big companies. Most are on lay-off just enough guys to keep them going. For a while the mills were cutting their own holdings but now that has even stopped. The only thing happening right now is pulp, that going gang busters, but they have all the cutters the need. Like I mentioned above alot of guys are so deep into not working that they are selling and parting out their gear.
Many talk of GOL but in my part of Oregon most haven't even heard of it. It won't help you get work here. The lumber prices are crap, and so goes the timber raw material prices.
Your 15 thinking of a side in the NG. Go full time and try to get a side cutting where ever and when ever you can. I got lucky, A few old timers told me to get out while I could and keep running on the side as much as possible. So thats what I did. It was hard to leave cutting full time but it was the best move I have made, but I still the hammer down on the saw as much and often as possible.
Think about this. Your 15 right? In time you will have a family, wife, kids all that good stuff. 99% of the cutters and logger I know have no benefits. No sick time, no vacation(no work no pay), no medical, nothing. Many do it, but that is hard way to take care of a family, if something happens and you need a Doc you are on your own for the whole bill, Jr has something at school you would like to go to, sorry no time off, Mrs wants to go someplace for the anniversary, no work no pay.
I know your dream kid, it was my same dream. I was lucky enough to taste it for the number of years I did, and for what little I still do. My boy is 13 and his goal in life is to cut as a team with me. The only thing I and my wife can tell him is how hard a road in front he would have if he did that. For him as far as we are concerned a job in the woods is not an option, and that is exactly what we tell him.
The glory days are gone for the most part kid. Sorry to tell ya that.
The only help I can give ya is, get an education and use it. There are still jobs out there that education will get ya, and you will still be able to run a saw from time to time. As far as running a saw full time. In my not always humble opinion you would be doing your future and what ever that may hold for you a great disservice.
Sorry kid
Owl
The cutters around here in my part of Oregon are not and haven't been working steady or at all for the last couple months. Guys are starting to sell and part out their saws for extra cash.
The mills that are still running are only buying from the big companies. Most are on lay-off just enough guys to keep them going. For a while the mills were cutting their own holdings but now that has even stopped. The only thing happening right now is pulp, that going gang busters, but they have all the cutters the need. Like I mentioned above alot of guys are so deep into not working that they are selling and parting out their gear.
Many talk of GOL but in my part of Oregon most haven't even heard of it. It won't help you get work here. The lumber prices are crap, and so goes the timber raw material prices.
Your 15 thinking of a side in the NG. Go full time and try to get a side cutting where ever and when ever you can. I got lucky, A few old timers told me to get out while I could and keep running on the side as much as possible. So thats what I did. It was hard to leave cutting full time but it was the best move I have made, but I still the hammer down on the saw as much and often as possible.
Think about this. Your 15 right? In time you will have a family, wife, kids all that good stuff. 99% of the cutters and logger I know have no benefits. No sick time, no vacation(no work no pay), no medical, nothing. Many do it, but that is hard way to take care of a family, if something happens and you need a Doc you are on your own for the whole bill, Jr has something at school you would like to go to, sorry no time off, Mrs wants to go someplace for the anniversary, no work no pay.
I know your dream kid, it was my same dream. I was lucky enough to taste it for the number of years I did, and for what little I still do. My boy is 13 and his goal in life is to cut as a team with me. The only thing I and my wife can tell him is how hard a road in front he would have if he did that. For him as far as we are concerned a job in the woods is not an option, and that is exactly what we tell him.
The glory days are gone for the most part kid. Sorry to tell ya that.
The only help I can give ya is, get an education and use it. There are still jobs out there that education will get ya, and you will still be able to run a saw from time to time. As far as running a saw full time. In my not always humble opinion you would be doing your future and what ever that may hold for you a great disservice.
Sorry kid
Owl
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Yep. Work on your education first. If you want a taste of the woods try working on a wildland fire crew for a season. It will kill or cure you.
My sons is 17 has one more year of school and just joined the NG.He will upon graduation from HS be going to state college,all paid for by the gaurd,plus will recieve 400/month for the first year.second year 20,000 lump sum and 600 month and graduate I believe a leutenant of some sort.Check into the NG ROTC its a great deal
If I may ask, what specifically is it about your logging goal which appeals to you the most?
Working outdoors? Felling timber? Being around big trees in the forest? Some TV program which makes logging appeal to you*? Maybe just being able to tell your friends you are a logger?
(*I don't watch TV, but a logger friend of mine told me last night that the show on TV about loggers is way off so far as his job really is. Hollywood is fantasy and the shows are written by people who live in a big city!)
Be *honest* with yourself and with us about what specifically makes you interested in becoming a logger. Then perhaps people here could suggest other similar types of work which you could fall back on should the logging thing not pan out.
Anyway I understand being young and *really* wanting to do certain types of work. A good start to being a logger would be to read the following...
Chainsaw injury statistics...
http://www.elvex.com/facts08.htm
A good start would be to get this book...
Professional Timber Falling - A Procedural Approach
http://www.ddouglasdent.com/dent_books.htm
Get this DVD...
Stihl "Chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance"
http://www.stihlusa.com/information/info_lit_video.html
Then learn all about logging safety here...
(Click on "Manual Operations" at bottom, then click on links and different parts of image.)
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/mainpage.html
Working outdoors? Felling timber? Being around big trees in the forest? Some TV program which makes logging appeal to you*? Maybe just being able to tell your friends you are a logger?
(*I don't watch TV, but a logger friend of mine told me last night that the show on TV about loggers is way off so far as his job really is. Hollywood is fantasy and the shows are written by people who live in a big city!)
Be *honest* with yourself and with us about what specifically makes you interested in becoming a logger. Then perhaps people here could suggest other similar types of work which you could fall back on should the logging thing not pan out.
Anyway I understand being young and *really* wanting to do certain types of work. A good start to being a logger would be to read the following...
Chainsaw injury statistics...
http://www.elvex.com/facts08.htm
A good start would be to get this book...
Professional Timber Falling - A Procedural Approach
http://www.ddouglasdent.com/dent_books.htm
Get this DVD...
Stihl "Chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance"
http://www.stihlusa.com/information/info_lit_video.html
Then learn all about logging safety here...
(Click on "Manual Operations" at bottom, then click on links and different parts of image.)
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/mainpage.html
I don't like your post at all. Not even one little bit. And the reason I don't like it is because what you write is so very true. I wish it wasn't.
You hit the nail, or several nails, right on the head. We're not in as bad a shape here as you describe but I think it's coming. We haven't bottomed out yet and anybody that doesn't see that is just living in denial.
You described the situation real well and you gave that kid good advice. The days when a young kid could start out in the woods and work his way up through the rigging or whatever are pretty much gone. There are so few good jobs opening up in the woods that they go to friends and relatives first...people taking care of their own and that's the way it has to be.
There just aren't the opportunities available...and I don't see that changing.
Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
I hesitate to be so pessimistic. I think with a background in forestry, and some hands on experience with the new equipment and logging techniques there will be a niche for qualiified men.
Just because were old and obsolete like a bunch of steam donkys doesn't mean there's no future in the fiber industry.
Oregon State University has a world class forestry dept. Go to school winters and work in the woods during the summer.
I think there's going to be some excellent opportunities in the energy side of fiber production.
Just because were old and obsolete like a bunch of steam donkys doesn't mean there's no future in the fiber industry.
Oregon State University has a world class forestry dept. Go to school winters and work in the woods during the summer.
I think there's going to be some excellent opportunities in the energy side of fiber production.
mile9socounty
Two-Stroke Swope
That is true. It might not add up to logging. But it will get you wet behind the ears if you find the right company. Take the FS classes for saws and get qualled. If you work with the right company. They will keep you employed year round.
The things that wants me to become a logger is I love the outdoors. I am always out in the hunting,fishing,camping. I dont care really what job in logging I would be able to get. I just so you know was interstead in logging before the hit tv show axmen. When I went to a logging musium up north. If I would not be able to get a job logging I would try to look into firejumping, or full time army. Sorry guys even if it was one day I would have to try logging.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
Well I can tell you one thing... you're gonna be in the outdoors... but it ain't gonna be like a campin' trip. There are gonna be a lot of times where you wish you weren't outdoors.
Unless you grew up out here livin' in these small loggin' towns, watchin' people scratch to make a livin' in the woods... it ain't worth it. You don't go from na-da experience to a faller in a short time. You gotta pay your dues... Seriously, stay in Michigan and get an education. You'll thank me later.
I know landing rats, hook chasers, and buckers that are well into their 40's and they will never become fallers. It's not as simple as "i'm movin' out there and I'm gonna be a logger..." I started workin' in the woods when I was 14... one year younger than you. You need experience in the woods to get a job in timber.
Not tryin' to be a smart a$$... but I bet the TV show had nothin' to do with you wantin' to come out west to be a logger. Just like thousands of people flocked to Alaska to be crab fisherman after Deadliest Catch was on for a season. You're young... go to college, and experience life. Just think... go to school, study, get a degree, party it up, sleep in on weekends, get laid, have fun, find good job. Or... come out west after high school and literally work your tail off every day. A lot of weekends, and loooonnng days. When you finally get old enough to drink, get in bar fights because "I'm a logger, and proud dammit!", start a family too early, and now have 3 kids and a wife to support before you are even 24 years old. Or get hurt in the bush... then it's a whole new ball game, and the odds of gettin' hurt are not in your favor.
Sounds like a good time huh? Loggin' ain't a profession you just wake up one day and go do. Sorry to be blunt... but that's how it is...
Good luck... yer gonna need it.
Gary
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I work in the woods but not as a logger. I'm thinking there'll be a shortage of foresters after all of us retire. Forestry is now a politically incorrect career as we are seen as people who only care about getting trees "chopped" down. I point out that chainsaws are really used when this is mentioned. Anyway,
you can go to school and then find work in summer. You've got time, take math math math...forestry requires math skills.
As for it being like fishing and hunting...NOT. You have to hump up hills which you'll think as mountains being from the midwest. Out west, we have different climates but if you work where the timber is, it is gonna be wet and unpleasant for you. You either have been raised here or you have to learn to embrace the weather. Until yesterday, we hadn't had a sunny nice day for 2 weeks and I could point out the days on a calendar, that's how rare sun has been.
I have a job I love, when I'm outdoors doing it. But right now I'm not because there is no logging going on. None. Some logging is scheduled to start up, but that is only the sales owned by mills. The guys who log are having to find other work, or travel a long ways to work, like another state.
I've kept myself busy opening roads up. I'm very lucky to keep working during this time.
So, you might want to look at becoming a Forester, which the loggers will make fun of, but is a needed profession. Oregon State, as earlier mentioned, has an excellent program. They even have a logging class and have students out falling, setting chokers, etc. Get a forestry degree and then you can still look for work logging or get work for somebody, and I don't recommend the US Forest Service, except for maybe summer work if you can't find it somewhere else.
And I am not a real forester, but a "forest technician". That is my disclaimer.
Bushler
ArboristSite Operative
Learning to eat sticks and rocks is the key to survival as a logger, if you can do that....
I often wonder how long until the GreenPeople will mature and realize we can no longer afford not to develope sustainable timber harvests in our National Forests, (like it was meant to be)?
I'm not a forester, but it seems to me that we really need to be rotating our timber crops on the sites indexed class I-IV to maximize our resource.
I've seen a lot of change in the logging industry since I started four decades ago. The worst change is the control on our resource, implemented by the GreenPeople. Control through litigation must end.
I often wonder how long until the GreenPeople will mature and realize we can no longer afford not to develope sustainable timber harvests in our National Forests, (like it was meant to be)?
I'm not a forester, but it seems to me that we really need to be rotating our timber crops on the sites indexed class I-IV to maximize our resource.
I've seen a lot of change in the logging industry since I started four decades ago. The worst change is the control on our resource, implemented by the GreenPeople. Control through litigation must end.
Something similar to logging is that we have a lot of trees in Oregon which grow into the power lines. There is a company called "Trees Inc." which does a lot of tree trimming for the utility companies. I would think they would need a steady supply of "Arborists" to trim all these trees. And from this line of work you might be able to more easily move into logging - then go back to it when times are tough.
Might want to contact this company and ask what schooling you would need to become a "certified arborist"....
Here is their web site....
http://www.treesinc.com
Might want to contact this company and ask what schooling you would need to become a "certified arborist"....
Here is their web site....
http://www.treesinc.com
@ gearjunky
Hi
I was reading this thread just because, just as you, i also long time considered the forest or logging environment to be my destiny.
Actually, on the bad days in my current job i still might think about it. Something like: throw the whole thing out the window (business, carreer, driving force, management, exchange rates and other :censored: ) and go cut some trees.
My parents always motivated me (felt as pushed me that time) to study.
While that studying was not so succesfull at all i was always working in some industrial job and grew in it till my position now where i am running a company with + 50 people.
The thing is, i like cutting wood, be in nature, work in nature but all these things VOLUNTARY.
If i decide to go cut a tree in middle of winter, it is because i WANT TO. If it is too cold, i go back inside, or take a break. Not one moment i HAVE TO.
Last year a tree falls on my fence during a storm and i decide to get out and cut it, in pouring rain, dark and cold, because i want to keep the horses on that part of the pasture. This is a rush of adrenaline and a hero story (stupid or not) in the office the next day. But I CAN stay inside.
Another example; I bought a waterproof riding coat. Just because i like to ride our horses in the forest during rain season (the smell of the forest!) Nothing will stop us from riding our horses, people call us crazy but we have great fun. Well, everytime i see roadworkers during a rainfall, i think: poor guys, must be hell.
That i own equipment and play around with it eg as visiting this forum and getting in muffler mods etc. Or that i think about 3 saw plans. Or that i spend the money on some logger boots because they are the best and they feel good and more than that, they make me feel good....
all those things are only possible because my job is supplying the funds (read: FREEDOM) to play around.
If i would have been in timber (at 18 here in europe) i would now be probably living from social support. When i was 22, a discus in my back collapsed. I am able to work physically and hard, and i like it... but since that day my back is telling me to stop earlier than my mind.
Just make sure that you have a safety net in case something happens, thats my only advise, no matter what you want to do afterwards.
I'm leaving out the family part: wife, children, responsabilities. You are young but one day you will have to supply for more than your desires only.
So take the advise of the others, go study.
to all those working their $ss off and scraping the bits together to make the end of the month: (more people than you think gearjunky)
I have all respect and i do not mean to be offensive in my post.
Hi
I was reading this thread just because, just as you, i also long time considered the forest or logging environment to be my destiny.
Actually, on the bad days in my current job i still might think about it. Something like: throw the whole thing out the window (business, carreer, driving force, management, exchange rates and other :censored: ) and go cut some trees.
My parents always motivated me (felt as pushed me that time) to study.
While that studying was not so succesfull at all i was always working in some industrial job and grew in it till my position now where i am running a company with + 50 people.
The thing is, i like cutting wood, be in nature, work in nature but all these things VOLUNTARY.
If i decide to go cut a tree in middle of winter, it is because i WANT TO. If it is too cold, i go back inside, or take a break. Not one moment i HAVE TO.
Last year a tree falls on my fence during a storm and i decide to get out and cut it, in pouring rain, dark and cold, because i want to keep the horses on that part of the pasture. This is a rush of adrenaline and a hero story (stupid or not) in the office the next day. But I CAN stay inside.
Another example; I bought a waterproof riding coat. Just because i like to ride our horses in the forest during rain season (the smell of the forest!) Nothing will stop us from riding our horses, people call us crazy but we have great fun. Well, everytime i see roadworkers during a rainfall, i think: poor guys, must be hell.
That i own equipment and play around with it eg as visiting this forum and getting in muffler mods etc. Or that i think about 3 saw plans. Or that i spend the money on some logger boots because they are the best and they feel good and more than that, they make me feel good....
all those things are only possible because my job is supplying the funds (read: FREEDOM) to play around.
If i would have been in timber (at 18 here in europe) i would now be probably living from social support. When i was 22, a discus in my back collapsed. I am able to work physically and hard, and i like it... but since that day my back is telling me to stop earlier than my mind.
Just make sure that you have a safety net in case something happens, thats my only advise, no matter what you want to do afterwards.
I'm leaving out the family part: wife, children, responsabilities. You are young but one day you will have to supply for more than your desires only.
So take the advise of the others, go study.
to all those working their $ss off and scraping the bits together to make the end of the month: (more people than you think gearjunky)
I have all respect and i do not mean to be offensive in my post.
mile9socounty
Two-Stroke Swope
Believe it or not. Even Trees Inc. is taking things pretty hard around here. A few people that I know. Well they are laid off due to the price of fuel. Its just the way the world rotates I guess.
huskykid141
ArboristSite Operative
do arborist jobs like tree removal etc. have better pay and benefits? I was thinking about going to college and getting a degree in forestry, but i am not sure what job i can get a fairley descent pay and benefits from.
i would say if you wanted to make that goal happen you would have to move out here first and make lots of contacts. cuz there is plenty of work out there. you just got to know the right people. more then likely youll have to start out setting chokers and makes some contacts and then try and get a cutting job.
Zodiac45
Paleostoveologist & Sawwhisperer
I really think you should. Get an education first and formost that is. There are many good Foresty Programs available. Look at the degrees and you'll have an idea where you'd be able too work. Don't do it if pay and benefits are your biggest concern though, because you'll never get rich it it. It's more a love of the lifestyle and the ability to do it and get by. For all the youngsters out there who want too go for it, I applaud you, but it's gonna be tough. A mill up the road from me in Millinocket, Maine just closed due too fuel prices. That place will be a ghost town in 2 years. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy though, and someone is going to be out there managing /working the resources. So, Get the most and best education you can though. It's just more tools in your box, more options in your pocket. Good Luck too you all.
