Just need some advice

[Pulpwooder101]

Hey guys, iv been doing forestry work for about 4 years, I do alot of large scale land clearing and what not. But iv always loved cutting wood. Well iv got a friend with about 65 acres of loblolly pine, he was wanting me to come through and thin out some of the decent pulpwood and maybe some saw timber. Well as it stands I can't financially buy a big rig with a double bunk trailer and a cutter or skidder. But I do have a 60hp tractor that iv done small logging jobs with and always does good. Iv thought about useing my personal truck with a trailer combo but iv found a older truck built to haul wood and can pull a trailer. I figure if I can haul 5-6 tons on the truck, and maybe 3-4 on a 16ft trailer I can make a decent amount with the mill distance close. Transportation will come off the top and it will be a 50/50 split. Just want to see if this is a realistic goal. Not looking to feed a family or anything, but just as a thing to do while I'm home for 14 days.

The truck is attached

 

[northmanlogging]

You hand falling, and skidding solo? And how much thinning do you suppose per acre? And why only 14 days?

Other wise I'd say give her Hel. Just keep in mind the tractor isn't going to be super fast, and hand falling is not ideal for pulp cutting on flat ground, but it sure is a lot of fun...

And the big concern, 65 acres in 14 days hand falling is nearly impossible, unless you only plan on taking a few trees per acre, I would plan on spending way more time, probably closer to 1-2 days per acre. And thats if your really kicking butt with no break downs or down time.

And as far as the truck and trailer goes, sure it would probably work, but that loader looks kinda slow. You may be money ahead to hire out a self loader, they can stuff more wood on a load and do it quick, meanwhile you could be off cutting and dragging more wood in, rather then running to the mill and back.

 

[Pulpwooder101]

What I meant by 14 days is I work offshore and I'm off 14 days at a time. He basically wants anything I can get out but while leavening anything 12" and up. Some of the land will allow me to back the truck right up to the trees and which them right on up. The loader works pretty fast for what it is, can have a loaded truck in 15mins and the mill is 15 miles down the road from the job. And since I'm working now, I can probably save up for a small skidder or something. $23 a ton ant much, but it's better than nothing!

 

[treeslayer2003]

50/50 is to much to pay for pulp that will likely bring around 26 a ton delivered. what part the country you in?

 

[Pulpwooder101]

USA, Mississippi. So your saying I need to charge more?

 

[chucker]

USA, Mississippi. So your saying I need to charge more?

more like 75/25% if all the other party is supplying is the trees, wood, or pulp...... perhaps, 66/33% if your just being a all around good guy to help him out.....

 

[Pulpwooder101]

Wow! I've always made decent money doing 50/50, I might try to talk him into me 60 and him 40

 

[GRTimberCO]

If expenses come off the top you might can make 50/50 work. If it comes off your end you are going to loose your tail. That's my predidction. The 50/50 sounds great until a big limb goes throught the radiator of that tractor and your out $500+ to replace it. It's the unforseens that kill you tractor logging. I do it and make a little here and there on saw logs but in my opinion there isn't enough money in pipe puplwood right now to make any real money on it, especially at 50/50. Your lookin at somewhere around $22-23 a ton on pine pulpwood. How many tons do you think that truck will carry of that size wood? I don't know, but it won't be but about half as much as you can good saw logs. You are going to fill it up with wood. Then take the fuel, saw loops, blown hydrolic hoses, etc. off the top and then get half of what's left. It might work for you, but I don't know

 

[Pulpwooder101]

Fuel for transport will come off the top, most of the trees will be 12" and under, average height is about 14-23ft. All of the wood is in easy access, I'm not looking to make a living but maybe some change to save up for other equipment. This truck should carry at least 5 tons worth, and the trailer iv got maybe 3-4 tons. I figure that and 50/50 should make some change.

Thank you guys so much for the advice, I'm hoping he decides to take some of the saw timber out.

 

[bitzer]

I can't see you getting more than 2 cords on that truck and maybe another 2 on the trailer. We get $42 per ton up here, but its paper country I guess. Higher demand. Typically I only pay $10 per cord stumpage around here. North of me where pulp is the norm and its a lot more competitive they pay $20-$30 per cord. I wouldn't pay more than $10 per cord down there. Maybe even $5 with those per ton prices. You are doing him a favor with the thinning. I have a hard time making money hand cutting pine and I can cut and skid about 12 cords a day in a first thinning. That's getting the wood out with a single bunk forwarder and at $42 per ton or roughly $100 per cord. Trucking usually takes $30-$35 per cord. Sometimes more. The absolute worst part about hand cutting a first thinning is getting the damn things on the ground. Also at 14 to 23 ft tall its not ready yet. You are only going to get 1-3 stcks per tree and A LOT of limbing. At that point he should be paying you. Seriously.

 

[treeslayer2003]

I wouldn't do it for it but if its a buddy your tryin to help go for it.
if I can get 30 a ton I may pay 5.....25 ton all I can get on and that's with 50' trees.

 

[HuskStihl]

If I wanted that done on my property, I'd have to pay JakeG to do it. No way I'd be able to expect payment

 

[Pulpwooder101]

Well it's not a gona be for the money, everything I'll make off it goe to more equipment, I'm also going to to try and impress his dad who has about 250 acres of plantation pine

 

[lmbrman]

Around here first thinning pine 1-3 sticks would bring $35/cord on the stump, overly competitive here. Just goes to show how each of our stories are so much different, and our opinions seldom apply elsewhere. I enjoy reading here for that reason.

Around here the pulp is mostly 100", but I see trucks in the south with full length trees. I am curious what the mill close to you takes as I imagine that could help production,, maybe? Just guessing here.

Plenty of people here with good knowledge and experience to glean if it helps your situation.

be safe -dave

 

[Pulpwooder101]

Oh I'm really taking all this advise seriously, down here it has to be 8" at the but and 3" at the top, that's if your hauling non tree length, the length has to be 12ft or longer. This mill will kinda let you cheat a little because they chip it themselves. Nobody buys anything down here by the cord anymore, the pay a flat rate per ton for what ever they get in

 

[lmbrman]

Yea the mills here have all gone weight pay, I just am stuck in the past and convert as most landowners are still used to cordage, which is really a pain. Minimum diameter on pine here is 4", maximum is 24", but subject to change pending how bad the mill wants wood. My Dad is in N FL and I see the trucks there with all different lengths, figured it had to be pulp from the sizing. Thanks for the info.

Mills here pay a base rate plus mileage from the woods to the mill , which can cause some game playing at times. Mill will change that as needed for inventory in the yard.

 

[bitzer]

I forgot to mention everything here has to be 100" also. 2" min /20" max diameter at the pulp mill I send my wood to. Cordage gets paid to the landowner/ tonnage gets paid at the mill. Tree length production is going to be different from piece work. Good Luck and I hope you have a lot of patience.

 

[Pulpwooder101]

A 100 inch minimum!!??? Good god!! Me and my brother used to load dads truck by hand! I thought we had it rough!!

 

[northmanlogging]

Totally spaced the pricing thing, I think maybe are markets are just a tad better here... You may want to figure out what its going to cost you to move the wood, and then figure your pricing out from there. If you're looking to impress the father or whatever, then he's probably going to want the same deal and if you lost money on that or didn't make as much as you thought you maybe should, then it can be a downward muddy slope from there.


The trick is finding a balance between not cheating the guy but still making it worthwhile for you.

 

[Pulpwooder101]

Talked to my buddy who owns a small mill today, said he would pay top dollar for any hardwood I can get. Made a quick call to a friend of mine who has been bugging me about clearing a place off for him. Turns out he has about 25-30 large oaks he wants gone

Looks like I'll have make enough off this to get some other nice toys to go with my small scale logging hobby