Large Territory

[TheTreeSpyder]

Anything in Nature is streamlined over milleniums to efficiency to some kind of purpose or place in a bigger picture. There are no spare/unused parts in fact many are multidimensional in purpose and function or lost/consumed in the sands of time.

In the balance of all things, a large beast of any jungle may rule strong, but needs to stake and protect a larger area of territory to sustain itself in all functions etc. in trade of this balance. So the kings of many jungles may rule amongst their own and others that would seek to enter; but none of it is a game.

Every bit of every effort is streamlined by Nature assembling the most efficient way to do the work at hand, having many more milleniums to calculate, experiment and correct than we; to the highest efficiency for the orchestration of interwoven needs of many.

It is no different in the jungles we speak of; the largest must stake off the largest feeding ground and protect. The largest must also take the largest shelter to digest comfortably all the food it needs,protect it's own etc.

But nothing is wasted or unplanned, all is interwoven into a larger fabric. You cannot alter any point of the exterior of a 3 dimensional balance, and not throw something else off, besides what you alter, and all dominoeing relationships from there.

We can learn much more from Nature, than ever dream of teaching it!

:alien: :alien:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The Drive to Feed

The larger drive to feed the larger mass, demands fierce strategies of the strength and mass of any organism, out competing those around, that outlived those before them. This strenght and fortress is achieved most efficiently when combined with resource gathering and patrolling. As trees are the largest life form ever, and are millions of years old, their strategies must be superlative to about all others to have stood the set of time.

The drives to feed and protect, yet with the least amount of energy, set the stage for the correct territory and communing. But, every part is planned for highest efficiency to particular purpose and place. Every individual can adjust to many things over time to survive, and maybe even grow to depend on a situation that they have specialized themselves to individually, as no other.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

In reaching for all available light as main fod source for it's massiveness, a tree sets up it's territitory and tries to cool the food processing and storage for leaves and roots to best efficiency ranges of temperature and moisture. It also by itself or in numbers, seeks to screen out larger animals from compressing the soil at it's roots, feed itself with it's own mulch trees try to hold to their territory, as the mulch maintains cool damp habitat for roots and friends. The scenario is not of a fly caught all alone in a glass jar, but a healthy sea of interdependant life, living in the bioshere the trees set up, as the master of using the Earth's resources sets up house.

Because Nature takes the most efficient route; and trees demand so much, being the largest life form to promote and sustain: If trees did not do these things so well, with such streamlined efficiency, and lending help to the rest of life around it, all of the trees would have been thinned before man ever saw a 1!

 

[Crofter]

Spydey; I like the coined word "symbiosis". Living together or interdepenant. Every life form must be able to live off what the other life forms can continue to have in surplus. None can cast off what others cannot continue to assimilate.

Frank

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

And in trade, the largest must do the most, over the largest area. As the trees set up houskeeping, architecture and shelter for the biosphere they will encase and protect as they do themselves.

In construction sites, with massive metal beasts compressing the oxygen out of the underground sea of life and functions; while at the same time, making root growth harder through the compacted soil. The tree now has less to do more with, to sustain itself. And that is if no physical damage is down to roots.

So giving the giants their staked off territory, is giving more than just a topical quality to the homesite very quickly. Many things will probably change for the trees, try to minimize that, especially in the more important functions, and any easy ones to cover, for a start.

Or something like that
:alien:

 

[Stumper]

One of the amazing things is the ability of trees to survive the adversities that our changes bring about. Funny, but have you noticed that the trees people love to hate are the best adapters (Ailanthus, Siberian Elm, Russian Olives etc.)

It is also worth noting that trees will sprout and grow in inhospitable conditions that man did not create. One of the most interesting forest settings I know of is a lava flow in New Mexico. Where the lava comes up against a lone muntain that manages to catch enough weather for a little more rainfall there is a Forest of natural bonsai Ponderosa pines. Trees hundreds of years old that are 10 feet high and less are scattered across the folds of hardened lava.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by Stumper
One of the most interesting forest settings I know of is a lava flow in New Mexico.

Anywhere near Espanola? I'm going to the Jemez mtns next June. I'd love to see that forest.

I see our closed canopy of eastern hardwoods, where a squirrel could once hop from Raleigh to Memphis, plowed under with little thought of at least preserving a healthy margin. The arborist's job as I see it is to retain as much of the scraps that are left, and repland and tend the replacements for the next generation.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Reply to Stumper thoughts: i think that trees, because of having to feed there most massive size of all existance; and to hold that title for so long, yet grow slower than other plants-must, therefore be one heck of a strategist, voracious competitor. Yet are the gentle giant and lend what they have.

These might be more tropical views or images, but i think any of us have seen rich biospheres/canopies supported by massive fortress of protected life from stampeding raid, wind and sun etc. Also, from this view in Florida, i can see the different palms fitting into the cooling needs picture by their monocot design and tough fiber to once again place the water travel etc. cooly deep insulated inside the corky stalk, protecting it from the reflected heat of the bright beaches etc. :: Do better than others with the reflected heat, even into the night on parking lots asphalt etc.? In some of them, that water travels a long way up, to take no other detour or relief of branching; just to feed one growing crown, that is some long slurp on the straw! Everything, has working temperature ranges that are best. When so hot, food doesn't digest right even in a person's own food handling, and that alone produces it's own heat as by product. It seems trees evolved to shade cuz they needed this for the massive feeding, otherwise it would not be there, for there is a cost to it's production, and Nature would not pay that cost if She didn't have to. With every cut we take this needed territory from heat and raid, that trees need, and lend to all else willingly. As they find ways to get more from the Earth and Sun, than anything else ever, and without moving!

Though some conjecture, i beleive the soft images fit into figuring what trees are about, to appreciate, calculate needs, and how/why to affect minimally in the harmony of the marriage between them and us as 2 of the largest rulers of the lands in our own ways. As Tom has seemed to point out(guess he needs an invitation!) to even approach this takes one of peace, not push and charge. Seeing the patterns of interlaced territorys in all else, rather than just carving out our own blindly i think. Especially as we prolly need them, more than they need us!

If not for the tree's cooling their massive selves and areas of collection, and allowing that to be shared by all else, to cool the whole planet, as this giant solar cell to convert the sun's energy to plant energy before it batters the whole planet as it does only spots/deserts?

 

[Stumper]

Guy, It is a long way from Espanola, It is south of I 40 just a little east of Grants. I've forgotten the road number but can get it for you if you wish. There is a natural arch (stone) just a couple of miles from the Bonsai forest.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

160 miles, not that far. When we firm up our plans to go I'll be asking. Thanks!

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Root of the Matter

The protection of the inner sanctums/organs of feeding it's great mass, is important to the giant living beast of wood;as it would be to any other creature. It is just that only the animate can cry out physically and/or verbally to be recognized as being violated.

So, the protection under the cap of green and wooden barriers shelters the massive food processing for the largest life form/competitor. The green is easy to see, appreciate; the hidden roots importance and delicate condition we seem blinded to. In raising trees, clearing their neighbors, we open the gates to the trampling of this food processing/gathering in the underground, that the trees seek to protect; and for very good reason.

For, if we take time to fluff the air into the ground, loosen the ground’s resistance to roots working through as we do with a rototiller, we don’t want anyone coming thru the gates, and walking on the rows near the plants, it is the same for the trees! The same lessened resistance to root growth in the soil, takes less energy, can give more rootings from same calories spent by the plant. These rootings also in richer, more oxygenated; imbuing a sea of interlaced simbiotic life all for richer soil that the increased number of roots can gather from! Much higher efficiency, easier, richer nutrition; with less work to get it and anchor the large creature to the ground!

From the excellent, short, readable "Troubles in the Rhizosphere" by Dr. Alex Shigo :

” The rhizosphere is the absorbing root-soil interface. It is the zone, about one millimeter in width, surrounding the epidermis of living root hairs and the boundary cells of mycorrhizae as well as hyphae growing out from some mycorrhizae.

The rhizoplane is the boundary where soil elements in water are absorbed into the tree. Under an electron microscope, the rhizoplane appears as a jelly where microorganisms and tree cells mix, making it impossible to tell which side is tree and which is soil………Every tree treatment affects the rhizosphere in some way. The more you know about the rhizosphere, the better the chances are that your treatments will lead to benefits rather than harm.……. Soils and wood share a common problem: They are thought of as dead substances…….

With their extended hyphae, mycorrhizae not only greatly extend the absorbing potential into the soil, but the hyphae may connect with other hyphae on other trees………“A common treatment for compaction is to fracture the soil and add water,. The fracturing allows air to penetrate the soil, but does not provide any eight-micron tunnels for the bacteria. The only way to bring back the tunnels is to bring back the fungi in well-composted wood and leaf mulch, as nature does, or by inoculating the mulch with mycorrhizal fungi………My point is that many different synergistic associations have developed in, on and about non-woody roots that provide elements, not an energy source. These associations are of extreme benefit to all connected members. At the same time, the conditions that provide for the associations are very delicate and exacting. It does not take much to disrupt them.

This statement deserves repeating and repeating. The delicate "threads" that hold these powerful associations together need to be recognized and respected. Trees in cities grow only so long as these "threads" remain connected……..When trees are over-pruned, the top will be injured first. When it is injured, it will not serve the energy requirements of the bottom. Soon root diseases start and are blamed for the decline or death of the tree. Where over-pruning is common. so are root diseases.
Compacted soil blocks air and water to the bottom and crushes all the microcavities where the microorganisms live. In nature, decomposing wood and leaves keep conditions optimal for the rhizosphere inhabitants.

Over-watering stalls the respiration processes in the roots. When respiration stops, carbonic acid is not formed. When carbonic acid is not formed, ions necessary for the absorption process do not form. When absorption is down, the tree system is in trouble…………I believe there is a way to decrease the potential starvation problem. In forests, more wood should be left on the ground, and in cities, more composted wood and leaves should be added in correct quantities to the soil about the base of trees. Incorrect treatments of pruning, watering, planting and fertilizing should be corrected, because they often start the pumps to wobble. If these simple adjustments can be made, rhizosphere starvation will decrease and our trees will lead healthier and longer lives.”

I think the trees know this and try to protect themselves by setting borders, that we remove; but we should then maintain invisible borders, tape on construction sites; to protect the most delicate feeding of the largest of the large.


Or,,,,,,,, something like that
:alien: :alien:

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Re: Root of the Matter

Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder
These rootings also in richer, more oxygenated; imbuing a sea of interlaced simbiotic life all for richer soil that the increased number of roots can gather from! Much higher efficiency, easier, richer nutrition; with less work to get it and anchor the large creature to the ground!

Arborists can and must work in the rhizosphere as well as they work in the atmosphere. No other profession is doing it, as landscape contractors dump mulch on trunks. Landscape architects dictate that they culture turf as close as possible. Builders disrupt roots to the maximum for their very short-term convenience.

It's up to anyone who understands trees to deal with the roots. Spend $30. for a soil probe to show clients how their trees are struggling under the conditions they create. Then they wil pay you to improve them. It's more difficult/headachey than rigging, with far less immediate gratification. But who would not trade the glory of a well-removed living tree for the quieter glory of a well-preserved tree that their children can enjoy?

Thanks, KC

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Living Large.........Dedicated to the Big Guy(s)!

i use to have a few Freshwater Aquariums, nothing to brag about....


If the oxygen was depleted, everything died. When starting out; the water would have to turn/sour from the wastes and decaying food etc. The levels of nitrogena nd ammoia in the tank etc. screech to lethally high, toxic levels; before out of necessity and plenty, wasting nothing, Nature would step in; and the bio-cycle was started; the toxic levels dropped, and became more self maintaining.

The more water in tank, would seem easier to keep; so i named it "More Water/More Nature"; 10 gallons sux in the amount of upkeep by what ya get out of the diminished 12" screen, and a more volatile, shifting system.

A long tank, would be better than a tall one of the same size; easier to clean, but also kept it's own self better; for a low tank has more open air to water surface area at the top to release nitrogen and ammonia gasses more readily and in doing so slurp/exchange more rich oxygen. The oxygen fed it's processes as always, the dispelling of exchange gasses cleansing the system.

A fibered paddlewhell piggy backed onto the tank with the water pumped to tumble and spine the fibered paddle wheel gave more exchnage both ways of the gasses. the thin film of water on the paddlewheel fibre richly cleansed and oxygenated etc. Their were some 'dirtier fish', and some helping fish life. Lots lower maintantnace, and healtheir if cleaner fish were protected, as most are more delicate etc.

i am finding it easier to see into the less transparent sea of the soil with those lessons and images. Remebering the fight to balance higher/better; then just the relaxed allowance of it being higher/better balance. the impoortance of respecting and allowing the system, knowing which direction it is moving in it's natural correction and going from there.

Oxygen is always important,the trees seek to protect their sea of life that feeds them with their territorial wooden borders, so that the life giving oxygen is squeezed out, and caverns for helpful life closed too by large animals, even protection from 200 ton dinosaurs that coundn't make it as far into the forests as open area. And even if they killed outer trees, they still stood as the corral, helping the still living of it's kind in the fortress of the dead spars still lending strength.

Knowingly or not; we did not invent these uses for the trees, but imitated them!!

Or something like that
:alien: :alien:

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

As i write, thinking of what ye have said about planting trees, making it easiest, realizing i can work in mornings, evenings and skip hottest part of the day, instead of worrying about work lost in hottest part of the day mebbe if i can make lemonade out of this....

Been thinking of better cart for some time, applying patterns of rigging we have spoke of to the task of building and use of a metal cart!. Multi use; but in the aggravation of the learning curves, looking to make it mebbe easier to step thru etc.....

It seems one minor change (that wopuld need re-fortification of what it broke apart) could make a standard cart friendlier, perhaps.

 

[ORclimber]

"...in cities, more composted wood and leaves should be added in correct quantities to the soil about the base of trees." Shigo

That piece backs up JPS's pro seaweed/ anti fert agenda. And Guy's pick and compost. The rest of "Troubles in the Rhizosphere" makes me think of compost tea. Haven't seen any research to back it up, but... The whole point of compost tea is adding the microorganisms and fungi back into the soil. Which would improve soil structure and biodiversity making happy roots.... Would soil injecting compost tea/seaweed solution cross the line of overwatering? Seems like it could give some drought relief during our dry season.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

The reason for mentioning the cart is 2 fold; for the reason mentioned, and it's bearing of the same mechanichs not moving a taken tree, but allowing the tree to live by the application of the same princiapl of moving the pivot, being a pivotal adjustment.

Task is to provide arguement how to keep tree from pressurizing bank etc. with highest forces to save tree. already lost a round at the same site.

i think this one will be saved not so much because of my idea, but cuz, they want to save it; and i tip the scales with excuse...

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by ORclimber
[B Would soil injecting compost tea/seaweed solution cross the line of overwatering? [/B]

Only if it is overdone. If you're applying regularly you want to dilute more. Potent tea in a hose-end sprayer is simple to use.

"in correct quantities to the soil about the base of trees." I think Dr. S means throughout the rootzone and not just close to the stem, right?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur
Only if it is overdone. If you're applying regularly you want to dilute more. Potent tea in a hose-end sprayer is simple to use.

"in correct quantities to the soil about the base of trees." I think Dr. S means throughout the rootzone and not just close to the stem, right?

You can introduce too many organics to a site too.

For most species, over watering is soil saturation, not allowing gas exchange in the soil so it becomes anerobic.

If your in a sandy soil with frequent rain, then regular apps of a tea/emultion may do an introduced plant some good.

Neither of them is a cure all, we still ned to do work and test the soil. IMO they are amendments for a plant in decent soil. In Greenlake, we have a lot red and white oaks in sandy, high pH northern savanah soil. As these species mature, they need help. It would have been better if more bur oak had been planted....

I'm workjng on a white pine in thi9s soil type, that is right next to a parking lot....

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
I'm workjng on a white pine in thi9s soil type, that is right next to a parking lot....

Be glad it's not in our clay soils; a healthy big Pinus strobus is rare down here.

I agree w all else you say. Nice to see you back here once in a while, stranger :alien: .