Limbing on the way down

[TDunk]

I know this isn't the preffered way to do this but i'm wondering how many people have done it before or do it on a regular basis. I finished taking down some white pine trees this weekend (trying to get them finished b/c hunting started today) so i was kind of in a hurry. I had to climb up about 70' (leaner) to put a rope around it and pull it over. What i did though was climb up on the branches BUT i ALWAYS had both lanyards either around the tree or on the larger branches (one lanyard on one branch, never both lanyards on the same branch) Rapelling down i did my limbing, haveing both lanyards around the tree and gaffs in the tree on every cut. I was always taught to limb on the way up using two lanyards, to me the other way almost seems safer because your using two lanyards and your climbing line. I know you can't do this on very many tree's, i was just curious to see what other people thought.

 

[tree md]

What I do on trees where I need to get out on a limb, work in the canopy and/or rig limbs is put a line in the tree with a throwbag. That way you don't have to climb the tree twice. Of course, on some trees like Pines it's often quicker to just climb up and install your climbing line. I don't like to limb from the top down and have a bunch of hangers to deal with and make my take down less predictable.

 

[joesawer]

I have done it a few times. If you are not careful you just create a rats nest below you and cause unnecessary complications. Once you get used to limbing evergreens on the way up, no other method is faster or more efficient, with rare exceptions of course.

 

[TDunk]

It's the first time i've done it like that before, but i have to admit that there was quite the mess of branches towards the bottom. Thanks for the input.

 

[underwor]

As I have mentioned before, as I get older my methods seem to change. Since I rarely get a real easy takedown, most of the young fellows do them faster and cheaper, I am getting a little more cautious. When I was younger, I really enjoyed the arborist's convertible, where you drop the top and go for a ride. Following an acquaintances demise, when a white pine broke below him as he dropped the top, I have changed techniques a little. Although the exact cause of the accident was never determined, one factor that may have lead to the failure was the whiplash effect on the trunk as the top pushes it one way and then jerks it back the other when the top snaps off. This effect is lessened considerably if there are some branches left on to absorb some of the forces, pushing the wind out of the way on both movements.

Since the trees, predominantly Colorado and White spruce, are generally in tight places, where I do not want a whole lot of swing from the top, I have started cutting a notch up one side of the tree as I go up to guide the top down. I set a line, drop the top, with very limited sway from the tree, and then come down on my climbing line and lanyard removing the rest of the branches as I go. If space is real tight, I will set up a vertical speedline to keep the butts close to the tree when I drop them, again using the clear notch down the side. This may not work as well in the pines, with more upright growth habits. As mentioned before, the top may hang up quite a bit more.

I realize that for the people who have underbid and need to make production this is not the fastest way. But as I get older I have learned that most people who have money think that price and quality are related, so they are willing to pay more if you appear to be working safer and doing a good job. I am by no means the cheapest climber around, but I have never collected on my insurance in 41 years, nor missed work from a tree related injury since 1970 (one handing a chainsaw on the ground).

 

[frashdog]

I could not imagine limbing from top down. Besides messy, how about unpredictable and I can't imagine rigging?

We cut mostly white pines down, some over 100ft. We always limb up, top, chunk down. Some leaners over homes, every single cut is rigged down.

Now on big pines where I will be in for a while I will climb right up to around where I'm going to top it and set up a t.i.p w/pully. Pines get the ropes sticky. Rap back down to the bottom. Makes it so easy to work sitting in the saddle, need to walk out on a long limb to rig, easy. Come across some bees, undo the flip line and rap down, quick.


I do know of a bucket rider who will start removing a white pine by topping the tree from 50ft, cause he can't climb. Wicked messy job. But then again he does not have to clean up. His groundies were telling me his poopy tactics.

 

[treesandsurf]

In this method of setting your TIP and a rigging line towards the top of the tree, where is the TIP in relation to the rigging point, I am assuming above?

jp

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Being bigger then most people, and in declining health, I do not like the whippy feeling of tall spindly threes.

I will often work my way up one side of the tree and, then down the other, chunking the top out as I come down.

Maintain the mass dampening as you work.

This works well on rig jobs where setting a retrievable rig point on the spar, moving it as I come down.

 

[frashdog]

In this method of setting your TIP and a rigging line towards the top of the tree, where is the TIP in relation to the rigging point, I am assuming above?

jp

Yes the TIP is set way above, as high as I feel comfortable, usually where I end up topping it from. Rappel back to the first set of limbs and start cutting. I am on spikes with steel core flip line, still I like to sit in the saddle when ever possible.

Again this technique is in big white pines, most near or over 100 ft.

As far as rigging limbs on my way up. It's throw as I go, up and over limbs with the rigging line. Dedicated pine pitch impregnated rope used.

Some times things get too sticky and we will set the rigging line on a pulley w/runner hitched around trunk a few feet above my cuts. Moving up as we cut. Works well with several cuts to be made in a row. The pully deal works awsome once you have exceeded half the distance of the rope. Bowline a 'biner on each end. Cut is made rigged piece free falls til groundie slows it to his end of the rope, climber takes rope and lowers piece rest of way and quickly gets an end of the rope with a biner ready to rig. I can keep two groundies pretty busy

Never get and real weight in out streached limbs on the way up. but if we do or if we get another leader coming up we can static rig by tip tying and felling the piece twards the main leader or raising the limb.

Butt hinging tops and chunks on the way down. Steel core flip line and climbing line w/running bowline on trunk about knee level through a figure eight on saddle. After some bee incounters and stories, A figure8 can't drop me fast enough!

 

[Rftreeman]

there is nothing wrong with limbing from the top down as long as you don't have to worry about the "NEST" of limbs flipping out and rolling off and hitting something. We use to call this the lazy way. I've done it many times, even blocking the stub as I go.

 

[countryboypa31]

if i have a clear drop zone below me i'll remove anything on that side as i spike up, just undercutting and then letting it fall. Then set my climbing line and lowering line in the top as i come down hit anything very easily handled. Then rope the way back up and normally rope the wood one the way down. Easy enough seems fast and safe, as long as there is a definite clear drop zone. like seeing the different opinions, specially the changes made as some climbers get older. i'm about as young as they come 23 if that explains the way i do it.

 

[treedog72]

It's not a good practice. Of course every tree and situation is different. If being tied in twice is the issue, just set your climbing line with a throwball. Limbing on the way down leads to limbs and wood redirecting on the way down. If there is nothing around then limbing on the way down seems ok. In most cases though there is a building,house,pool or some other obstacle that you are trying not to hit. Therefore I limb on the way up. treedog72

 

[joesawer]

When you get a big rats nest of limbs built up on lower limbs it put a lot of unpredictable weight on them and causes them to sometimes break violently and upredictably when you touch them with a saw.

 

[clearance]

When you get a big rats nest of limbs built up on lower limbs it put a lot of unpredictable weight on them and causes them to sometimes break violently and upredictably when you touch them with a saw.

You know it, been there when I was spiral pruning/windfirming big trees. I took some branches off on the way up as I always do, sometimes they hang on others. When you finally rappel down from over 150' and have a big nest at say 70', there could be hundreds, maybe even a thousand pounds of branches held by one big strong branch. When you just touch it with your saw-Bang!!

 

[Themadd1]

Limbing on the way up is better for me, i like to have a clear drop zone whenever possible. I dont think it takes any more time doing it this way versus climbing all the way up and limbing on the way down. I almost always use a throw ball and tip before I start climbing. Unless I can climb up from the ground with my flip line. Most pines are like ladders anyway. Leave some short stubs to walk up if you don't mind some extra work at the end of the day. I do leave short stubs if I have to chunk down and carry them to the chipper. It gives you a good handle to carry off the chunks.

Pine is so weak this time of year, frozen snapping, etc... I get would get a little nervous leaving a rats nest on one side of the tree. I dont get the big trees here but you never know how strong those pines are until you get back down to the ground....

 

[pbtree]

I have done it a few times. If you are not careful you just create a rats nest below you and cause unnecessary complications. Once you get used to limbing evergreens on the way up, no other method is faster or more efficient, with rare exceptions of course.

What he said...

 

[Fallen Angel]

I try to always limb it up as I go..there are exceptions of course, but besides the rats nest, you get the added weight of the cut limbs on top of the limbs still attached. That alone can cause a safety hazard..not to include possible injury or property damage. Once I get to the top I put an apropriate size notch and go w/ my back cut. If the notch is the apropriate sze and back cut made correctly you can decrease the whiplash effect (not always;but most of the time). I've gone for a few rides after dropping a few tops. One in particular had my lower back sore for a week. On a heavy leaner I will take perty much all the limbs off before dropping the top. The whiplash from dropping a top on a hard lean is a mother^%$*er. Kinda like riddin' a 2 ton bull.