link to some good info
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Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
These pubs are more for foresters than arborists. The Armillaria one says there is no control, but a recent article in TCI and a paper at www.tree-tech.com outline simple and sensible treatment strategies that I have used successfully.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing--watch out for forestry's inability to inform arboriculture.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing--watch out for forestry's inability to inform arboriculture.
Burnham
ArboristSite Operative
Your comment cuts both ways, Guy. Foresters and arbos operate in different arenas, and operate with some constraints unlikely to affect the other. For all practical purposes, your cited treatments for Armillaria amount to "no control" in the forestry setting.
No offence intended, but you seem to be a little high on your horse here
. Both fields can inform the other, so long as we all recognize the differing conditions each operate within.
No offence intended, but you seem to be a little high on your horse here
. Both fields can inform the other, so long as we all recognize the differing conditions each operate within.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Maybe they should have the caveat that "there is no effective control that is economically availlible from a silvicultural perspective"
but only spelled better
but only spelled better
Burnham
ArboristSite Operative
Well, you got "caveat", "effective", "economically", "silvicultural", and "perspective" right, I think...that's pretty good!
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
I agree totally. Forestry has the constraint of not being able to afford some treatments that an arborist must know about. Therefore a forestry pamphlet can be dangerous to an arborist who believes that every tree with armillaria, beetles or other problems should be cut down.
Better for arborists to have tree care info at hand; that's why I cited them. Ride em cowboy. Yee Ha!
wiley_p
ArboristSite Guru
I checked the above mentioned link, wow great site. But I was wondering the treatment seemed extensive and labor intensive not to mention on a mangement basis for the average yard tree it seems the most feasible action would be removal, soil work, replacment of tree. The publications from the Canadian forestry folks have been an outstanding source of info whether I working in the city or in the woods, There isnt quite the canyon of difference between the arborist/forestry professions.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
On some issues, no. On many others the canyon is a chasm. I admit I'm biased; for decades I've heard way too much dangerously misleading, misapplied recommendations that call for killing trees that can outlive the owner and the forester, too!
ORclimber, if they're giving you a $10 bill in each publication that says you can't treat Armillaria, they are still not a good deal--even if you are flat broke.
I looked at a few others--good advice on aphids, tho soap not mentioned as control, and fireblight--tho agrimycin not mentioned as control. Overall they seem to try the best ways of control first, and the toxic ways last; looks responsible.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hey cmon I tried to say nice things too! There is a lot of useful stuff in there--my main point is that anytime a forestry pub recommends removal as a control, an arborist must look into arborist lit to get the treatment alternatives that foresters don't have the time or money to use. That's all.
It'd be ideal for all arborists to have a $65 Sinclair-Lyons book in their pocket instead of a free forestry brochure, but I understand the logistical difficulties of that.
Also, when things like soap and agrimycin are left out, that shows you it's best not to lean on one source for info. But let me go on record--the canadian pubs are good, and shouldn't be burned!
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
You'd need a pretty big pocket for that! Especially if you had the Johnson & Lyons companion bug book.
Those are the best books for the tree person who works with pest problems.
Those are the best books for the tree person who works with pest problems.
wiley_p
ArboristSite Guru
I think I need to take a trip out east for a while Guy, My feeling is the commercial arborist work is quite a bit different there than here. I deal with 80% altered forest as someones new backyard, my thoughts on management for the client is frowned upon by alot of folks yet those same individuals arent used to dealing with the large, damaged, and now prone to attack by pathogens, Doug firs, Hemlock, Bigleaf , and Alder, Cottonwood. In the old city proper, Seattle, Tacoma etc, it is a lot easier to be a traditional arborist. In the suburbs the truth of the matter is change species or rotation of native species and out of curiosity what would your time be on root excavation treatment of root system, cause maybe I,m not that experienced yet but regardless I can get jobs done pretty fast and in my mind a pathogen that is affecting the buttress roots of a large tree, a serious look should be taken at all the alternatives, And often removal and replacement is the safest and cheapest prescription for the homeowner. I dont know about you but in my area I compete with around 178 tree companies I have to come up with solutions that have the most value in order to get a lot of work. Oh and by the by I get on loggers/foresters just as hard for making biaased staements regarding arborists. Remember the truth is we'll be long gone before anyone can really show that the right/wrong decision was made by us anyway.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
It's always the safest but seldom the cheapest, because in the decision you must factor in the value of the benefits the tree delivers to its owner(s). It's easy to give up on the tree if you don't value its contributions. But you're right, if all the buttress roots are affected, the bad guys are winning and it may be replacement time.
Depends on the vigor of pathogen and the vigor of the host. It's a back-and-forth battle, and you can't make the call without looking hard at both forces, which often takes a few seasons to assess, especially if you've called for treeinforcements.
Most clients are happy to pay for annual or biannual PHC visits and experimental treatments.
The owners if properly informed will make the right call for them. Wiley if we were in the field together I don't think we'd disagree that much.They ROCK! But they have regional limitations. Using them alone it would be possible to match host and damage to a pest that doesn't exist on the West coast. And they don't have a key, you've got to know what pest to look up.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I've run into that too. A lot of what is good for the east cost does translate to the midwest, but there are some problems.
Then get into the rockiies and people gipe abou the lack of resources.
Another problem is that new stuff is cropping up so fast.
The two seminars I've heard on EAB are scarry. By the time the figured out what was going on, the south east third of Michigan was litterally infested. But that is grist for another mill.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
They do have an index by host plants; easy to find the bug because you know what it's feeding on, right?
Forget what you know about conks and try to ID one using that book. Not so easy.
When you look up Pseudotsuga Menziesii it lists about 70 different problems in different areas of the disease book. You've got to jump around and compare by process of elimination.
Guy Meilleur
Addicted to ArboristSite
Right again, it is really comprehensive. But I'd rather have to jump around than miss something. During the jumping you're running across things you may need to know about later.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I'm getting lost and reading about things not pertaining to the currnt problem. 2 hours latter....
