local tree man in my area electrocuted

[l2edneck]

i just read it in paper this morning sad day
ive done work for this company before

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/08/Northpinellas/Tree_trimmer_dies_aft.shtml

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Its troubling to me that there was no one on site who could perform an aerial rescue. Are these guys running a legit operation??

 

[l2edneck]

Dont know specifics about them now, been a while since i was in touch with them but other than the fact that i could climb up in a tree and lower a person down im not trained in aerial rescue either.Also would wonder if the tree was live or not.As ive heard better to be 1 casket than 2.Just shows once again in my eyes that we are having to maintenence around the wires due to cut backs on utility crews.IE when the big utility trimming company took over i seen them every where and now they are scarce.I refused to trim a palm tree in the power line and asked the home owner to request the power company come out and take a look so we will see how that will go.(Im not trying to knock the utility guys just heard rumors they lost the contract so they are just doin bare minimum. once again just heard rumors)Also although the company is scarce my power bill is still goin up.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

It's sure not the utility worker's fault that cutbacks are being made. It's the higher ups playing to Wall Street.


I just met a guy who's in my area doing contract work for the local utility. They're inspecting lines and reporting problems. A few weeks back they found a crossarm that was rotted - basically just a shell. It could have fallen at any time. They reported it immediately. Still took the utility a week to get out there and fix it. Something that should have been a "get somebody there YESTERDAY" kind of thing.

 

[Ekka]

Oh, that's that trifarcated peacan out the front that needs to be cabled.

Here's what you do, take a pic like you have, start a thread with the pic about how useless the energy company is then email them with a link to the thread and tell them they are on the global stage being watched for their poor performance and how you have to breach OSH rules to work on your tree due to the proximity of power.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Dont know specifics about them now, been a while since i was in touch with them but other than the fact that i could climb up in a tree and lower a person down im not trained in aerial rescue either.

That is about what an aerial rescue amounts to.

This poor soul got zapped at 10:45 and wasn't removed from the tree untill after 2pm, thats the part that is most troubling to me.

 

[vharrison2]

Very sad indeed, and I agree that someone on that crew should have been able to get him out of the tree in 3 minutes. Not that it would have saved his life, but for his dignity.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Another death would have helped his dignity? I understand and fully agree with treating a body with respect, but we don't know what the situation was. There might have still been a live circuit for part of that time, and of course there is always an investigation.

Trying to get him down in 3 minutes would probably have been foolish.

 

[OTG BOSTON]

Trying to get him down in 3 minutes would probably have been foolish.[/QUOTE]

Not if the person getting him down was proficient in aerial rescue. They would recognize the potential danger and avoid it, and at the very least be able to administer CPR in a reasonable amount of time.

I guess if you are the only guy on the ground and you can't get to your climber in under 3 min. you gotta ask yourself if you are even qualified to do the job.

 

[clearance]

Very sad indeed, and I agree that someone on that crew should have been able to get him out of the tree in 3 minutes. Not that it would have saved his life, but for his dignity.

This is where training really matters, our first instinct is to rush in and help our injured co-worker, but around powerlines training teaches you to avoid that. When an accident like this occurs, after insuring no further danger to yourself, you must contact the utility co. and recieve an assurance that the line has been de-energized. This might take a while, unfortunately you have to wait for it. 12edneck is right on the money "better one casket than two". Guys have been killed, many times, when they tried to help, there may well be nothing you can do but watch someone die, so be it, that comes with the job that "any hack can do". Anyone who would have rushed up that tree has to educate themselves, for thier own good and the good of those who might come after and try to rescue them.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

There have been many cases of would-be rescuers becoming additional victims. This stuff is nothing to play with. It's possible to get killed just by walking close to a victim, if the power is still on.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=398278&postcount=17

 

[moss]

I think OTG was saying that a rescue attempt would be appropriate if the tree and victim were not energized by the line. Since we don't know we can't speculate on the accident in question. To make a blanket assumption that nothing can be done when a climber is electrocuted in a tree is wrong. There is risk in every rescue. How many people go into burning cars and buildings to save people they don't even know. Some rescuers don't make it.

At the least a visual check can be made. If the pole saw is no longer contacting the power line, if the victim is not contacting the power line and the tree is not contacting the power line than a qualified rescuer can opt to try and save the guy. It's not rocket science to determine if it is reasonably safe to go ahead and perform a rescue.

I understand what Clearance is talking about coming from his utility background. With very high voltage the ante is raised quite a bit. From what he's described once a climber contacts these lines it's all over. In the accident reported in this thread it was a primary line in a residential area. Clearly dangerous but not the same situation as working near high tension lines used for regional power distribution.
-moss

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

No argument from this quarter. Especially that part about not knowing about this particular accident.

 

[clearance]

Andrew, once a climber makes contact with high voltage, directly or indirectly, it may not be over for him, thats the hard part, not putting yourself or others in danger to help. This was repeatedly emphasized when I took the training, by everyone, including retired utility guys that were brought in to help train us. I think they were there because they had seen people die, and because of that, what they said got our attention. I remember exactly what one guy told us, it was sad, sad tale, years later the man could not get it out of his mind, like he said "I'll never forget the smell". Power is deadly, few get a second chance. Obey the rules.

 

[l2edneck]

i am assuming that there was a risk...

Response time here is pretty good we have over 22 municipalities in our area i do not know.(like 40x20 mile path of land,over 350,000 ppl) when i got zapped rescue was there quick.Id say within 10 mins. Now whether a utility worker was as fast to respond or proper communication was followed no clue.Personally i think was a time=money mistake.I am further trying to find the word on the street and find myself speading it as much as i am hearing back.Clearance i appreciate your time to respond because if we can make some one else think b4 they do then its worth a life.(edit...Im bye no means sayin any money or electricity clearance is worth a life)

 

[OTG BOSTON]

At the least a visual check can be made. If the pole saw is no longer contacting the power line, if the victim is not contacting the power line and the tree is not contacting the power line than a qualified rescuer can opt to try and save the guy. It's not rocket science to determine if it is reasonably safe to go ahead and perform a rescue.

That is exactly what I was thinking, ditto on the not knowing the ins and outs of the situation
At any rate I will not be climbing anything even remotely dangerous without a ground person who can get to me if a hurry.

 

[DeanBrown3D]

Seems to me that they should cover the lines with insulation. I know its 7.2kV, but still how much can that cost to insulate?

 

[clearance]

Seems to me that they should cover the lines with insulation. I know its 7.2kV, but still how much can that cost to insulate?

Dean, stop it. They do make insulated high voltage line, I believe it is called Hendrix cable, it costs large $. Why don't they bury all the powerlines instead? How about only trained people are allowed to work around high voltage, everyone else stay away.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

And then what happens when the insulation breaks down (which it WILL), and people have gotten used to high voltage lines being "safe"?

MORE fatalities, not fewer. Complacency is a killer.


If it seems like clearance is being hardnosed on this, it's because he is.

Because he knows what this stuff will do. It's NOT playtime.

 

[l2edneck]

Why don't they bury all the powerlines instead?

i metioned that to my groundie(30 yrs in biz worked for utility back in 70s and 80s)he said and i quote "then there would be more ditch digger deaths"so it made me think yup keep em up n keep em cleared.