log vs split

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StihltheOne

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Ok guys, I know this is an old topic. Please humor me. If I have a 4 x 4 x 8 of avg 12" logs, will it stack more or less than the original measurement after it is split. I am attempting to squeek out some cash by purchasing in the round and cutting, splitting and delivering. The wood is mostly lodgepole and white pine. The truck driver claims that he is delivering 13 cords in logs, however, when all is said and done, I keep coming up with about 11-11.5 delivered. He gets his number by simply w x h x l on the semi. Please enlighten me.
 
+1 Hes screwin you. Dont believe that. Split wood in my experience takes up AT LEAST 1/3 more room IF stacked TIGHT. Stacked loose can be much more.

and the smaller the wood is split into the more room it takes...
 
take an unsplit chunk that will just fit

In a five gallon bucket, Split it into six pieces and see if you can get it back into the bucket.
 
Not so sure...

I agree with the split wood taking up more space than the original solid log it came from but that's one log and not how you buy a cord of log wood. The cord of logs has more air gaps because it connot be stacked as efficiently as a cord of cut and split wood.

So one volume-based cord of delivered logs will always end up being less than a full cord when cut, split and tighly stacked.
 
I heard that one before

13 cords on a semi.... Go for it, order one.
Cut it, stack it, measure it.

I bet you right! maybe 11 cords! Certainly not 13.
Plus what they chargin' for the wood there is very little margin.

My experience with blocks, is that if stacked really tight it will fit after being split. Hand tossed? No way, it grows about 10%

-Pat
 
No one's screwing anyone.

StihltheOne: The driver is delivering what he said. The tape isn't lying. You are both looking at different ends of the same branch. He delivers by volume, which you buck, split, and restack by volume, but without the large air gaps that were present on the semi load. It's normal that you end up with less than the 13 original cords. It is impossible to stack 12" logs as efficiently as split wood. Without using smaller logs to fill in the air space you will not get 13 cut and split cords from 13 cords of logs.

I've had wood dleivered cut, but not split, and the guy who delivers is old school and stacks that wood tight. He mixes the larger and smaller logs so that the stack is tight. Now that is a full cord that does not shrink when split. I've used another guy (not very often) who delivers a cord but not by split volume, he orders a semi load of say 10 cords, cuts and splits it, then sells it individually as 10 cords, each of which is less than one full cord. He is not ripping anyone off either because he tells you up front what you are getting.

Margins are tight, fuel cost is high, I don't think either of you are getting ripped off. That's just the way it is.
 
You Are All Correct

Cordwood is 4'X4'X8' NO MATTER WHAT: it's how it is sold. No space, no ricks, no facecord, no "thrown" truckload.
"Cut, split, delivered" firewood say 18" (or any stove length)long is measured if stacked 4x4x8.
Pulpwood usually 4' or logs usually 16'-24' long are measured the same way:
4'X4'X8'.
When you are thinking volume of actual wood, that is another matter dependent on size, on skill stacking, on individual split length.
Think this: the logger bringing you log lengths is measuring cords BY LOGS. It's a tough job, 99 44/100 % of loggers, firewood processers, or pulpers selling firewood are doing an honest grunt for you. None want to short anyone at least here.....California, well there is there :hmm3grin2orange: :heart: :heart: :heart:
Stop whining and quibbling; or, get out and cut from the stump to your wood burner. You will find that the BTU's put out by you and that hard body--mechanized or not--are enough to power AlGore's swimming pool for maybe a day :givebeer:
 
Agree with logbutcher,
A cord now days is a measure of volume. A box containing wood that measures 4 ft. x 4 ft x 8 ft. The condition of the wood contents is specified and agreed upon when the order is placed.
I think of the situation described as getting a tractor bucket with a yard of field stone, crushing it to pea stone, and then refilling the tractor bucket. The bucket will be nowhere near full. Does that mean you didn't have a yard of stone to start with?
From the tales my Grandfather told me, (a bit of CT Yankee history), wood was always measured in cords, with the wood cut in 4 ft lengths. 4 ft was traditionally chosen as it was the most efficient length to handle in getting the wood out, a winter time chore. A cord wood sled, and yes there was an old one, (probably worth a small fortune today), in his barn, was designed to take a load of wood 4 X 4 X 8. Anything larger the team had a hard time getting it out. Any wider and the sled was to hard to maneuver.
Anyway I don't think anyone's intentionally screwing anyone. Just looking at the pile from two views.
 
In a five gallon bucket, Split it into six pieces and see if you can get it back into the bucket.

Has anyone tried this ? 1 piece that just fits tight in the bucket split in 6 = pieces , 5 pieces will be snug.
I have many times split an 4' x 8' stack and the volume always seem to increase. Bigger wood split small , about 1/3 increase easy. Smaller wood split less , not as much an increase but still an increase.
Think about it , split 1 block in half even and you can't fit it back together in a smaller package.
Just to look at the split wood, it does appear to look tighter stacked, but there is many more times the gaps that multiplies to more air space then the much fewer big gaps in unsplit.
 
today i took 3 scoops of rounds.

then i split them.

then i loaded them back into the scooper, and couldn't get them back into the scooper.

the guy who say split rounds take less room then the rounds did are using a differnet type of log then me.

to be fair, the larger the round, the more they expand as you split them.
 
I might be missing something here,but it seems to be your advantage. If you are recieving 13 cords of rounds and they take up more space after you split them you would have more than 13 cords to sell. I might be reading it wrong, Ive had a couple beverages.:cheers:
 
today i took 3 scoops of rounds.

then i split them.

then i loaded them back into the scooper, and couldn't get them back into the scooper.

the guy who say split rounds take less room then the rounds did are using a differnet type of log then me.

to be fair, the larger the round, the more they expand as you split them.


I agree with you on this point, just don't think that's what StihltheOne is talking about. I don't recall anyone saying that split rounds take less room than the original round, in fact, evryone agreed with that. What was said is that 13 cords of logs delivered will always boil down to less than 13 cords when split and stacked.

You are comparing the volume of one round to the volume of one round split and stacked and I agree that the splits will take up more room. BUT if you compare a delivered cord or more of logs to the split product you will find that the split stuff takes up less room because there are less air gaps in the split and stacked than in the original log cords. You just can't pack a cord of logs as tightly as a cord of split wood. Keep in mind that we are talking 8' logs, not bucked stove lengths.
 
I agree with you on this point, just don't think that's what StihltheOne is talking about. I don't recall anyone saying that split rounds take less room than the original round, in fact, evryone agreed with that. What was said is that 13 cords of logs delivered will always boil down to less than 13 cords when split and stacked.

You are comparing the volume of one round to the volume of one round split and stacked and I agree that the splits will take up more room. BUT if you compare a delivered cord or more of logs to the split product you will find that the split stuff takes up less room because there are less air gaps in the split and stacked than in the original log cords. You just can't pack a cord of logs as tightly as a cord of split wood. Keep in mind that we are talking 8' logs, not bucked stove lengths.

if i take a round that fits into a bucket, split it, i can't get all the split wood back into teh bucket.
if i take a half cord of rounds, and split them, then restack, the pile will "grow" and be bigger.
if I take a cord of rounds, split them, then restack, the pile will grow and be bigger.
if i take 13 cords of 8 foot logs, buck them up, split them, i will have more then 13 cords of split wood.
if i take 60 cords of 50 foot logs, buck them up, split them, i will have more tehn 60 cords of split firewood to sell.
the more you split the wood, the more it grows.
the bigger the logs were to begin with, the more it grows.
 
I always go back to weight. After i know the weight of the logs, the type, and when they were cut, i can calculate there volume. After i have the volume, i'l put 1,5 times the volume to get the volume split and stacked.
works fine.
I made a small programm in my palmtop, and select the length, type of wood, and diameter, and can calulate within 10-15 percent what the tree or log is going to bring me.
 

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