logging/firewood question

[javier]

Hello all, question for you. I have a good friend and neighbor who has about 80 acres across the street, about 40 of which are woods. He had a logger come out to his place the other day and we walked the property. It is a decent bit of land, but most of his trees are a mix of pin oak and soft maple with a bit of everything else thrown in. He pretty much knew before we went out that there wasn't a fortune to be made back there but is wanting to do something with it. After/during the walk the logger pretty much let him know what he thought of the property. That it was about 1 to 2 ratio of decent mill stuff to "wood"(as he called it) trucks. Basically the majority would be pulled out and turned into firewood or chips or some other low priced commodity. which he would pay $3 a ton for. The rest he would go halfs on the profit for the milled lumber.

My friend is an older man, doesn't really have access to tech. like this forum so I was hoping to get some insight for him. Do any of you have experience like this? Is this a fair price? My thinking is even going into it with a very open mind. Each truck that pulls out with a "wood" load is really only making you $75-85. That doesn't really seem like a whole hell of a lot, for the volume its taking out. I know there isn't alot of money in the firewood business, but you could split up your' own wood and make alot more money then that, and not have logging equipment on your property.

Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[indiansprings]

I'd tell your friend to contact the local State Forestry office. Here in Missouri they will send a guy out for free to evaluate your timber, they will even mark the timber for you. It's a different market than here but it seems low. Tie logs are bring 26-28 dollars a piece, don't know what pallet wood is bringing tight now, I think it may be around 30 a ton, but the best thing he can do is get the forester out. He can give him a accurate estimate. In some markets were firewood is selling for decent money he may be ahead to sell the stuff that will make ties and dimension lumber and sell the rest as firewood.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Three bucks a ton, no way! thats 7$ a cord or 14$ /thou. Not to mention the damage to the trees they leave behind. Barbarians I say, Barbarians!
I'd be getting a government forester to mark the lower grade stuff, get it out somehow with the least amount of damage and sit back for a decade or so and do it again. Trees are money in the bank if managed correctly. Don't let you or your trees get taken for a ride.
See there, I just saved 2000 American trees from getting pulped, pilaged, pounded and pilfered with impunity!
John

 

[Gypo Logger]

I addition, it's important to understand what you want to accomplish and how to get there.
First of all,proper forest practice is nothing more than a 3 way co-operation between the forester, the land owner and the operator.
A forest not only supports trees, but also recreational and wildlife concerns.
You have great chance to do some intensive forest management here.
Also, don't frown upon heavy iron in the woods, it's not the equipment that does the damage, it's the guy that's operating it and his skill.
The operator is all important, stay away from large crews, but rather a one, two or three man crew. One felling, one skidding and one on the landing.
Even then, it doesn't gaurantee that the end result will be what you want.
You still have lots of time to make a choice as to what and how it will be done.

Also, don't make $ be your prime concern. It's much better to have the job done right for nothing than to get 2G's and have a woodlot that will take 50 years to recover.

Hope this helps,
John

 

[madhatte]

Geeze, even pulpwood from precommercial thins goes for $35-45 per ton right now. I wanna say hogfuel is about $10/ton, if you already have the tub grinder to make the stuff.

 

[056kid]

3 dollars a ton is donkey balls. . .

 

[hammerlogging]

Actually, tis sounds typical for a cut on shares deal.. What gypo said is true, but goven the right guy (look at old jobs, talk to former clients)

$3/ton plus logging and trucking cost means you can sell it for a mediocre profit (think $27-35/ton delivered), and cutting on shares, while NOT a good idea on decent timber, is ok on moderate to lower grade and lower diameter avg. timber.

On small tracts, this may be the only route. But, more info from your area as suggested is a good idea, don't let the owner jump in too fast. There might be a gem out there, it costs the logger the same to pull 24" junk as 24" veneer so don't give away your cherry.

 

[madhatte]

it costs the logger the same to pull 24" junk as 24" veneer so don't give away your cherry.

Rock-solid advice there.

 

[javier]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I looked into Ohio forestry and it's exactly as described. They will come out and give all the info a land owner could need. I'm going to get this info to my friend so he can make an informed decision. Thanks again everyone.

 

[KeyStep]

You should be figuring somewhere $30-$35 dollars a ton for pulpwood delivered to the mill. The trucking will cost maybe 25% or more depending on distance to the mill. The cutting should be around 40%-50% if it is not problematic (variable). So that leaves you with only about 25% but that is still around $8 dollars a ton. have you friend get 3 or so quotes at the mininim. Any logs that are good bolts of pallet stock or ties will bring a lot more but it sounds like will little value there. I would consider given your size some smaller low-impact loggers and they may be a bit more flexible. Good Luck.

 

[joesawer]

In Alabama right now,hardwood pulp is bringing about $24/ton at the chip mill. After trucking and expenses that does not leave a lot.
IMO $3/ton is not worth cutting it. I would let it grow before I sold it for that.

 

[hammerlogging]

In Alabama right now,hardwood pulp is bringing about $24/ton at the chip mill. After trucking and expenses that does not leave a lot.
IMO $3/ton is not worth cutting it. I would let it grow before I sold it for that.

I suspect what is going on here is that its a little podunk logger with a cable skidder and a loader doing a high grade/thinning. A low production outfit that doesn't really even want to touch the pulpwood anyhow. A high production outfit clearcutting can make money on pulp, therefore can pay more for it, but that is found at more of an industrial forestlands setting rather than the back forty that sonmeone wants to at least resemble foretland when its done---- not that clearcutting wouldn't probably be a far better prescription, a high prduction logger lower impact, more professional, etc., but then again, they might not be able to afford to move in on a back forty anyhow.

 

[horseloger]

I am going over to mid Ohio in a couple weeks and can stop and see your situation! We do horse logging and environmentally sound harvesting practices and can grantee a positive result ! Where abouts are you in Ohio ? you can pm me and I will give you a phone no.