Look at the Blake's in the Wesspur cat

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Fumbler

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I'm new to climbing, but this looks wrong.
On page 13 of the new Wesspur catalog there's a picture of a Blake's hitch.
The end of the split tail was passed under the two bottom turns, but was not passed behind the climbing rope.

Is the one in the picture correct or incorrect?
 
Here you go:
attachment.php
 
It's wrong

Good call, Fumbler, the knot is mistied Blake's.

Unlike a knot meant to hold two ropes together (a bend) or to an object (a hitch), where a mistied knot may fail disastrously, friction knots tend to be much more forgiving. Most of them were probably invented when someone mistied an existing knot and found their new knot worked quite well. The Martin is an example. The Distel is a mistied Schwabisch. Any friction knot that involves several wraps around the rope will probably work, but some are unquestionably better than others.

I like the Martin, but the Schwabisch is easier to adjust. Never tried the mistied Blake's that you show, but it would probably work.
 
I didn't look at the pic 'cause it's too big for my dialup...
But I mistied my Blake's last week by not passing it behind the rope...It does NOT hold! Did my pre climb test and all 115lbs of me kept slipping back, looked closer - MISTIE!:buttkick:
 
I didn't look at the pic 'cause it's too big for my dialup...
But I mistied my Blake's last week by not passing it behind the rope...It does NOT hold! Did my pre climb test and all 115lbs of me kept slipping back, looked closer - MISTIE!:buttkick:

115? You make me feel fat.. :)
I tried the suislide Blake's.
If it's not set and dressed tightly then it definately gives you no room for error. It would hold my weight, but not securely.
 
I tried to figure this out. The Blakes seems to work by squeezing the climbing rope in between the tail of the knot and the bottom wraps. If the climbing line is not in between then there is some friction of everything being squoozen together but it is not remotely the same mechanics. I tied it about ten times and only got decent friction only once.
 
a mistied version that works

The comments on this thread were interesting enough I decided to try the mistied Blake's for myself: sure enough, as everyone agrees, it sucks. I agree with Gasman, the mechanics seem to be all wrong.

However, when I added another wrap at the top, the mistied Blake's worked fine. Then I tried another variant with only 4 wraps that also worked fine. I will try to post pictures tomorrow, since I know I can't describe it adequately.

I think the single-legged friction knots like the tautline or Blake's are inherently inferior to the two-legged knots like the Schwabisch or Distel or Martin's. Mechanically speaking, loading both legs of the knot seems to distribute the load better though the knot and produce more reliable and predictable friction. These knots seem to relax better when unloaded, making them easier to slide up the rope. If it is true that the friction is distributed more evenly throughout the knot, this might help to explain why they relax better. No part of the knot would have to be particularly tight in the first place, unlike the one-legged knots, and the knot relaxes from both ends as the load is removed from both ends, also unlike the one-legged knots.

Other factors are involved, like materials used, but it seems to me, all other things being equal, the mechanics is way better for the two-legged knots.
 
Testing Blake's and False Blake's

The suicide Blake's may not be so bad after all. The second and third knots shown are the same knot, the Wesspur knot. But the 3rd one, that I originally thought was a new knot, is a just a different conformation, and it works quite well. I thought I would call it the W2 so as not to further embarass the originator.

attachment.php


The trick is to pull the tail hard up against the bridge of the knot; don't run it across the climbing rope as you would a Blake's. When you set the knot by smartly loading it, it stretches a bit, the bottom loop grabs the tail, and it doesn't slip. With the ropes shown, it seems to advance up the rope as easily or even more so than a real Blake's. It seems to be stable. There was no sign the tail wants to creep away from the bridge to create the suicide conformation. Descending on the knot was really cool. You DON'T have to pull down on the knot to unload it and make it slip, as you do with a Blake's. That does work, of course, but you can just gently squeeze the knot from top to bottom, just thumb and forefinger, and it starts to slide. This action reminded me immediately of the little spring steel gizmo in a bathroom vanity that connects the pull rod to the drain plug.

I fooled around with this thing until I got tired. I reached the point that with my ropes and my weight (~150 lb) I would trust it for a serious climb. I thought it slightly easier to ascend with, and a lot easier to descend with than the Blake's. Anyone else want to give it a try?
 
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