Looking for Central Boiler Advice

[sunriseturf]

I have the oppurtunity to help a church go to "carbon neutral" by helping them heat their church, pre-school and offices (about 6000-7000 sf) with an OWF. The problem is the church is about 300-400 feet away from where my shop is and where I would want to install the unit to make it convienent for me to fill it with wood. It is also about 8-10 feet above grade where I would like to install it. There is also a large victorian house, barn, and garage that would like to tie into this that is about 100 feet form my shop. ( about another 5000-6000 sf)

1. What size unit should they install for their needs?
2. Does the elevation of the church pose a problem for the pump being that it is 300-400 feet away and 8 feet above the OWF?
3. How often would I be filling the unit up on an average in fall and winter day?
During the fall we average about 35 degrees at night and 50 during the day. Winter it averages about 25 at night and 38 during the day. I would be using year old hardwoods unsplit and manageable pieces big enough to be loaded by hand.

Your input would be very much appreciated
Thanks
Jim

 

[ericjeeper]

you will need some seriously large pipe

You will need 1.5 ID oxygen barrier pex. To make sure you can carry enough GPM and Btus that distance. Plus it will need to be insulated very well. to and fron Isolated from each other to avoid losing heat to the return side. This setup is going to be a very expensive install on someones part.

 

[ghitch75]

just the underground pipe will cost between $3000.00 to $4000.00 and the unit size would be around 455,000btu's of load at 35btu's per sft...our biggest unit is 500,000 btu's and it's $12,500.00 so buy the time your said and done you'll be lookin' at about 20 grand or more...

 

[WoodBurner44]

Check with TAYLOR PRODUCTS, INC in Elizabethtown, NC.
GOOGLE 'taylor wood furnace' for website and phone no.
Set up the unit closer to the church. Sixty feet might be max distance.
just found url: www.taylormfg.com
phone: 910-862-2576

 

[Husky137]

Sixty feet might be max distance.

That seems like an awfully short distance?

 

[ghitch75]

size of pipe,insultion & pump = distance....big enough pipe and pump you could go 1000ft if you had the cash!

 

[ktm rider]

I think I would just buy a small storge shed and put the OWB inside that and place it much closer to the church. The storage shed will only run you about $1,500 for a nice looking 10x12 building. Then you won't be taking up all that space in your work shed.
You will probably save atleast $1,500 on the pipe and insulation and trench work if you place it closer.
if you add the Victorian house you will be heating ALOT of sq. footage !!! you will need a very big boiler which wqill equal alot of $$$
Have you thought about maybe just getting a smaller boiler for in the basement of the church? maybe a Royall or AHS multifuel boiler? They are quite a bit cheaper than an OWB.
As far as how often will you be filling it ,Well, I'm not going to touch that one again,( I got hammered the last time I told the truth about my OWB experience) I will just say it will, without a doubt, be ALOT more often than you think.

Good luck and I think it is great that you are helping out the church.:biggrinbounce2:

 

[RCI]

Boiler Advise

I would lean more towards what ktm rider said.You will spend as much time cutting wood as you will filling the boiler with that wood.If that makes any sense.They are wood hogs thats just my two cents.Flame away boys:greenchainsaw:
Later RCI

 

[sunriseturf]

Between the buildings I have just mentioned they burn close to 25000-30000 dollars worth of fuel a year. They also are interested in the renewable resource aspect of it. I have access to all the wood I can handle. It would be cut into manageable lengths. Is it necessary to split the wood if I keep a hot enough fire going? I think a new boiler for them was quoted by them at over 30000 dollars. They definately are interested in the idea. Also the church needs to stay heated. They have offices, a daycare and need to keep the pipes from freezing. The unit would be real inconvienent if it was cole to the church. I need it to be near my shop where the wood will be dipsoed of. This would also mean that it will be near the house barn and garage which would be good. I'm guessing they will need the biggest one made to be safe? I'm going to be splitting the loading the boiler with the guy who owns the victorian house so that will cut down some of the time. I would guess that I would be filling it every day, no?

 

[ericjeeper]

Ok first off.. How many BTUS

go into the church. look at their boiler, See how many million btus they have.. It might not even be possible for ONE OWB to be enough..
Once a day? Hah. if you can even find a boiler big enough.. you will be feeding it atleast twice a day.
By the 25k-30k a year heat bill. That is a whole lot of BTUs they are buying.

 

[Bernie nw ON]

Greenhouse

One of our local greenhouse / retail craft outfits was, rumor has it, spending over $100,000 a year on natural gas for heat. They installed a Heatmor stove designed to burn pallets and, as far as I have heard, are pleased with the system. This is no mom-and-pop greenhouse, these guys are quite the sizeable operation. Let me know if you want more info.

Bernie

 

[ktm rider]

They are wood hogs thats just my two cents.Flame away boys:greenchainsaw:
Later RCI

AMEN !!!!!

 

[ktm rider]

$30,000 !!!! WOW !!

If the boiler is going to cost that much I would recommend a different route. If it were me , I would REALLY look into a coal stoker boiler ( one for each building) You could pick two of them up brand spanking new for about half of that price... You already live in the heart of coal country. And, Keystone stokers are made right in your state, along with AHS stoker boilers. Believe it or not, anthracite coal is very clean to work with and can be delivered.
The stokers are designed to burn for days at a time without any tending at all.
Or, you could get a multifuel boiler ( which I have ) it will burn coal, wood and has an oil backup so it will never allow the building to get cold.

This would not only save you a ton in just the boiler purchase but it would also save you a ton on piping, insulation, trench work , etc... Not to mention OWB's are being cracked down on left and right by local and even state politicians... You very well could be buying a boiler that will be banned in 3-4 years...
OWB's have their place for sure. I just don't think that this situation is were one would be the most efficient and economical...

 

[laynes69]

I would rather pay for the coal than to cut and load that thing all of the time. With coal you can have an automatic setup and just keep hoppers full. With wood you will become a slave to the thing. Its okay if your talking like 5 to 8 cords a year, but ...........thats all I'll say. I would recommend coal and its by far cheaper than oil. Anthracite burns long and hot. Very clean coal. Plus if your close to the mines, than it will be much cheaper. One other option would be a tarm unit with a HUGE water storage tank. These are very high quality and im sure they would use less wood than a standard OWB. The key to the system will be to have water storage to help keep the demand down a little. Good luck!

 

[sunriseturf]

Is fliiling it as often as everyone is saying for all OWF's? Iwouldn't mind once per day 2 or 3 times per day? Wow.

 

[laynes69]

I guarantee if you have those btu requirements, you would have to at least load it twice a day. They operate off of a forced draft, which when heat is needed the fan is running. This will burn off the wood quicker. Take 2 pieces of wood in a wood stove. If its 50 out, then those pieces will produce more than enough heat. Now make it 10 degrees outside with a little wind and those 2 pieces do nothing. The colder the more consumption. Also if you plan on using unsplit logs, they will take some monster pieces of wood. You would have to load heavy pieces into the furnace. I dunno, I think there are better ways to heat it without using a owb.

 

[MS-310]

Lots of ways to go....wood is cheaper then coal...You have to cut it you have to haul it you have to do alot to get it there.

11.00 per foot of underground pipe....
15,000 sqft stove .... around 9500.
lots of money and lots of wood. \

Coal fossile fuel----non renewable
wood-----renewable and it grows jobs.

Just got back from an house fire from an indoor wood stove...(not the stoves falt) you have to be very clean with an indoor...duh people

 

[sunriseturf]

I can get the wood delivered to me at a relatively low cost dumped right near the furnca so all of the real hard work....If it doesn't need to be split will be loading it into the furnace. Are there any boilers out there that would burn woodchips instead? That way I can load a hopper with my bobcat and that would be huge. Much less work for every one.

 

[bikeralan]

Is fliiling it as often as everyone is saying for all OWF's? Iwouldn't mind once per day 2 or 3 times per day? Wow.

I have an OWB and live in Northern Lower Michigan heating a not so well insulated 4 br old house, and in all but extreme sub zero temps twice a day is enough, but as a rule I am outside a lot anyway so I dont stuff it chuck full, so I dont get as much smoke ( I live in small town)

If you are looking for a heating system that you throw wood at and ignore I dont think wood heat is for you, a person can save money with wood heat, but you have to kind of like to cut wood and tend fires to really appreciate and properly maintain your investment.
Alan

 

[grandpatractor]

why not

I heat a 5000 sq ft house and a shop thats 2300 sq ft with 14 ft walls. house is about74 degrees and the shop is set at 70. My boiler is rated at 450,000 btu. I think I burn around 15 cord of wood a year. If its around 32 outside I get by with filling once a day. if its around zero twice a day.
I think your idea is doable but it may cost a bit. The distances aren't a problem with the right line and pumps. I think with the church the heat load will be slightly less during the week if programable thermastat is used. if the house and shop are yours whats a little more wood? They make boilers out there that can handle what you need . bigger boiler less often filling. smaller boiler more often filling. If wood is available and you got the money why not?