Looking into firewood sales - opinions please

[Steve NW WI]

I started to type this post as a reply to "So a guy calls up", but it wandered too far off that topic, so starting a new one.

I don't sell firewood yet-but I have given it some thought. 3 Prices, picked up, delivered and dumped, and delivered and stacked. Seems to me that much of the cost of firewood is in the transportation (truck, fuel, licensing, insurance, etc). The next biggest expense after that would be most likely the wood itself, whether cut on your property or delivered in log lengths, followed close behind by processing equipment and labor.

This assumes that the equipment is only used for firewood, unlike my part time firewood/part time farm machinery setup.

I can do a fairly good job of keeping track of the amount of fuel, oil, machine hours, etc it takes to make a cord of wood, but without a $/mile charge for delivery, it can vary wildly, and it's a lot harder to keep track of part time use of a vehicle for firewood purposes (I can't afford a dedicated wood truck at this point.)

Right now, but not necessarily in the future, I have access to 3 or 4 different places to cut, with a total of maybe 20-30 cords/year sustainable cutting. Any amount over that would come in log length truckload purchases.

I do think that I'll be sorting by species as I cut and split, with prices for each species, and the option of buying a mixed cord (say 2/3 oak, 1/3 birch etc.)

I also wonder about the market for "subprime" species - I have access to almost an unlimited supply of box elder, which isn't great firewood, but dries fast and splits fairly easy, I think if priced right, it could have a decent market for the OWB people?

Very rambling, but I appreciate any comments on any of my ideas. I'm just planning for the day I might be like many others and not have a job and need to rely on myself to get by.

Location is just NE of Minneapolis/St Paul, and delivery there could increase profit/cord.

Steve

 

[yodayoda]

I've debated over the same thing, It's one thing to make an occasional extra buck, but to try and make a living at it? I think for me, to take something I enjoy and try and twist it into a business, I think I would end up workin like a dog, barely get by, and hating it in the end.
Sorry, didn't mean to be a downer, I guess my advice would be start small, low overhead, see how it goes
Maybe some guys in the bussiness who know what they're talkin about can give some advice

 

[whitemountain]

Have to agree with above post start small and see how it goes. Wood is good work. Good honest work, good honest hard work. You can't effectively cheat in the wood business. Either it is a cord or it isn't, either it's good wood, or it isn't.

Also doing it on the side for a little extra cash, and trying to make a living at it are two totally different things. Don't get the cart ahead of the horse my friend and you'll never have to do somersaults to try to get yourself untangled.

 

[Henry G.]

I have the luxury of a full time job. But last year after getting a poor load of wood for the $$$ when I waited too long to buy(the day before a snow storm 12/7) I VOWED never to buy wood again.
Since then I have sold enough to pay for my Husky and splitter, some extra chains and the fuel plus little more and enjoy the physical work since I have a desk job.
Stay cheap on your equipment(buy quality but not overpriced) stuff. Do as much as the work you and your family can do, and NEVER pay for wood. Barter, promise beg but dont pay. Youre right fuel/transportation is the largest cost because you work for free. Treat whatever you make as spare income until it becomes otherwise. And if you begin to hate it find something else to do.

 

[STANG302]

Steve, where are you from in WI. I'm on the southern edge of polk county.

I also have an ungodly access to box elder also. On 1 acre on my property alone got me 10 cords. We cleared it to make way for replanting pine. Which unfortunately with no rain this spring and early summer a good percentage of them died. Also in the mix was some poplar and other soft wood. We split and tried to sell as camp fire wood. Some sold but not as much as we were hoping for.

My neighbor actually loves burning the soft stuff in his home made outdoor boiler. So we unloaded 4 truck loads over there. But am struggling to get rid of the remainder.

Oak seems to be the only thing any one wants in my area. If its anything else forget it. But I think towards the middle and end of winter when people are running low or out of fire wood. They would not bother running some soft wood instead to keep them warm.

If you come up with a solution to market box elder let me know. I have dang near an unlimited suply of the cancer.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Heeeheee- see your intro post. We're dang close, possibly neighbors.

"Cancer" - yep, it seems that way, cut one out and 10 come back, unless ya give em the Tordon treatment right after cutting.

Steve

 

[NDtreehugger]

I find it rewarding BUT

Think long and hard before quitting your day job

Here’s one for you…

I get a job to clean out a good bunch of dead standing 150 200 trees (elm) one of the guys relatives sees me cutting the trees and decides he wants the trees, remember there dead standing and been that way for 5 or more years because it cost too much to have them removed and its too much work for the guy to do it himself,, that’s why I get the job, I do it for the wood supply, But as soon as I get to cutting someone butts in and the farmer tells me he has another bunch of trees he wants me to cut first

(To clean up)

I simply state I don’t move job sites once I get started until the job is complete. He then said his relative want the trees (elm) and that I need to stop cutting but I can take all the Cottonwood I want from another site.
I tell the guy we had a deal but if you want me to clean up the cottonwood I charge $250.00 per hour, he said he would never pay that I say have a nice day and then I move to the next job (live ash trees)

A guaranteed endless supply of trees is hard to come by, always have a back up that’s better then your main gig, this will keep a smile on your face..

 

[Steve NW WI]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I have no delusions of this being a main job, but if I had to take a lot lower paying job than I have now, it would make a nice "gap-filler" if needed.

The biggest changes for now will be cutting more at 16" for easier to sell wood, doing a better job of segregating by species, and grabbing any extra wood I have time for to build a stockpile. Even if I never sell a stick, it wont hurt me or cost extra to do this.

Realistic goal is to have wood ready for sale next fall and reinvest whatever I make into equipment upgrades, etc, that will make my life easier whether I continue to sell or not.

Forget where the quote came from but "If you enjoy your job, you will never work a day in your life." I'd like to be able to say that about mine one day.

Steve

 

[SINGLE-JACK]

I started to type this post as a reply to "So a guy calls up", but it wandered too far off that topic, so starting a new one.

I don't sell firewood yet-but I have given it some thought. 3 Prices, picked up, delivered and dumped, and delivered and stacked. Seems to me that much of the cost of firewood is in the transportation (truck, fuel, licensing, insurance, etc). The next biggest expense after that would be most likely the wood itself, whether cut on your property or delivered in log lengths, followed close behind by processing equipment and labor.

This assumes that the equipment is only used for firewood, unlike my part time firewood/part time farm machinery setup.

I can do a fairly good job of keeping track of the amount of fuel, oil, machine hours, etc it takes to make a cord of wood, but without a $/mile charge for delivery, it can vary wildly, and it's a lot harder to keep track of part time use of a vehicle for firewood purposes (I can't afford a dedicated wood truck at this point.)

Right now, but not necessarily in the future, I have access to 3 or 4 different places to cut, with a total of maybe 20-30 cords/year sustainable cutting. Any amount over that would come in log length truckload purchases.

I do think that I'll be sorting by species as I cut and split, with prices for each species, and the option of buying a mixed cord (say 2/3 oak, 1/3 birch etc.)

I also wonder about the market for "subprime" species - I have access to almost an unlimited supply of box elder, which isn't great firewood, but dries fast and splits fairly easy, I think if priced right, it could have a decent market for the OWB people?

Very rambling, but I appreciate any comments on any of my ideas. I'm just planning for the day I might be like many others and not have a job and need to rely on myself to get by.

Location is just NE of Minneapolis/St Paul, and delivery there could increase profit/cord.

Steve

THE biggest expense is your time. Got a friend that does firewood to supplement retirement. However, he gets local arborist to 'dump' their big, 'un-chippable' billets for free. He gets more than he can handle so he can split and sell the "good" stuff for top price. Just another variable in the equation to reduce costs - look into it, works for him.

Also, check into the local laws. In my state there are very specific laws about selling cordwood. There's no need to have THE biggest expense be a lawyer.

 

[Moss Man]

If you dive in, read up on tax deductions as they can really help the bottom line.

 

[chucker]

a lot of great advise!! FIRST OF ALL THERES NO SUCH THING AS A RICH FIREWOODER!! hard and honest work is lite to say!!! time for me is non exsistant as far as cutting wood. if i were not doing this it would be something else. stay small and graduate as you feel comfortable with the sales and profit margin! save all your paper work for the tax man!! all my taxs are done under farm/contract laborer or 1099. theres not a whole lot that is not covered as not being a tax rite off. cell,gas clothing,food, you name it . just keep all proof of sales and purches's. for deliveries i have a 15 mile free del. anything after is a 1.00 per loaded mile and 35.00 for stacking and most people dont bat an eye!! for an extra sales lead you can check with the local fuel assistance office as a wood vendor!!this usually consists of a short contract for fuel type,price and size of sales (cord,rick ect ). not a bad deal when times are lean although it can take 10 working days to get paid ............................ hope this helps????

 

[sawinredneck]

A couple of other things, times are tight so a lot of tree services are starting to get into firewood as well, that makes the market that much smaller. If you can get wih the line or ROW crews in the area, they LOVE having close places to dump wood! They come out, open and close the gates, don't make much of a mess and dum a large pile or more of wood.
Talk to tree services in the area as well, someimes they like dump sites as well. BUT, this is going to be CRAPY wood you get! Cut funky, lots of crotches etc. so don't be afraid to throw some it away! It's just not worth the time!
Keep your quality up. Sell good loking wood, give them just a hair more than what you know is right, make sure it's seasond and don't try to pass it off if it's not! This places you above 70% of the market out there! A lot of guys just don't care and think this is easy money! You will build clientele this way! Even when I was working crazy hours, I still had to make time to take care of key customers. They sent me buisness when I needed it. Take care of these people and you can make as much money as you are willing to work for!

Now for me, I no longer have a place I can have it dumped, and the demand for Oak is such around here, that is all I deal in. I sell it for $125 a face off my property, $150 a face deliveed and stacked.
I have to run 100 miles each way to cut it, so I try to make it worth the trip!

 

[spike60]

I have plenty of customers that sell firewood. But there is really only one of them that has firewood as his main gig, allthough he does do some logging as well.

I have one of those business card racks in the store where guys can display their cards. Tree guys, landscapers, excavators, electricians, etc. I let anyone put their cards in there, but there are only a few that I will pull out and recommend. The guy I mentioned above is the only one I recommend for split wood. (There is one other guy I suggest for log loads)

Reasons: For one thing, he always has plenty of wood ready to deliver. But most important is that he PROMTLY returns phone calls, and people get their wood within a couple days. If I give out cards and people don't get a call back, they gripe to me about it, so I'm careful about who I recommend. And people want their wood within a reasonable time, not "sometime in the next month or so". Even if you can't help someone out, at least give them a return call and let them know.

Bottom line is that good customer service is more than just having good wood, and you will quickly develope some loyal and regular customers. Some guys that do wood get to a comfortable point where they just do their regular customers every year and don't really want any more. I like this business model because you keep the pace where you want it without the stress that goes along with too much work, irrate customers, etc

 

[chucker]

spike ,you and your firewood buddie are right on the spot !! bottom line well said!!

 

[Straightgrain]

Ah selling firewood.... I went from delivery and stacking to "come and pick it up, take it or leave it".

My dad used to charge .50 per foot from the truck to stack almond in calif. (probably for IOUs now).

I don,t deliver, stack, start the fire or draw their bathwater.

I treat my wood differently than the wood I sell:

The ultimate goal is to handle the wood as little as possible and get paid.

So; deck cut, stack and sell from the same area.

The only exception would be if you have access to a secure high-vis location like along a highway or a lot in town.

I take the firewood money and use it for new equipment and the all important deer/duck and bird seasons.

 

[woodbooga]

THE biggest expense is your time. .

Yup. Economists call it an opportunity cost. If you choose to do one thing, you must forego another. If you plant corn, you can't harvest onions.

When I think about the things I've done over the years for a few extra bucks - and consider what my hourly wage would be - a more profitable use of my time would be working at Wal*Mart or some such.

But that's where the bottom line gets a little bit fuzzy. Money isn't the only thing that motivates human behavior.

I doubt there's too many internet forums populated by Walmart associates who post threads going on about how much they love stocking shelves and dealing with wallyworld customers who are known for their cheery dispositions.

 

[chucker]

10-4 to that !! :agree2:

 

[Henry G.]

Booga is right on. But my free time is just that, and I dont turn down OT at work to get wood thats bad math. I enjoy using my limited free time to get wood and make extra money, this is money and opportunity that I CREATED out of a truck, chainsaw, work ethic and a strong back. Thats why I enjoy it, its MY creation. And I pocket everything I make, the welfare cheats, and Obama gov't isnt reaching into my pocket on this job.
Now some guys make good money at work (like me) and then think that their time is worth that amount in whatever they do, that anything less is a joke, and that can be a mistake. Example: I work in a secure environment where only certain employees have access. As a result, the janitors can no longer come into our work area to clean, so we now have to clean up, vacuum, mop floors etc. Some guys are pissed off, but I take it in stride for 2 reasons: The place is now a lot cleaner because the illegal alien janitors did a crappy job and we don't, and because I have to do this stuff for FREE at home and they pay me good money to do a job they likely paid the janitors $8 an hour! Its all in your attitude IMO.....
And since my truck always has wood chips in the back I think I may be becoming a California woodbooga.....:greenchainsaw:

 

[Laird]

Yup. Economists call it an opportunity cost. If you choose to do one thing, you must forego another. If you plant corn, you can't harvest onions.

When I think about the things I've done over the years for a few extra bucks - and consider what my hourly wage would be - a more profitable use of my time would be working at Wal*Mart or some such.

But that's where the bottom line gets a little bit fuzzy. Money isn't the only thing that motivates human behavior.

I doubt there's too many internet forums populated by Walmart associates who post threads going on about how much they love stocking shelves and dealing with wallyworld customers who are known for their cheery dispositions.

Every now and then you post something that makes sense and has a point.



I'll probably rep you again someday!

 

[woodbooga]

Every now and then you post something that makes sense and has a point.

I must not have been trying hard enough then.

I agree with the other folks who note that their time is their own. When I was doing scrap metal a while back, I always wanted to get the longest dollar per pound. So I'd hacksaw off any copper pipe contaminated with solder, tossing the little bits into the #2 bucket. And you get a better price per lb. if the diecast joinery is popped out of extruded aluminim windows and doors.

Time consuming, but stuff I could do whilst listening to music and nursing a whiskey cola.