Looking to get into the world of tree climbing and arboriculture.
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treeslayer
Addicted to ArboristSite
oh God, here we go again.
opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:
this is pure troll BS for sure.:deadhorse:
opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:this is pure troll BS for sure.:deadhorse:
treeslayer
Addicted to ArboristSite
"I may have considered working my way up, starting as a gopher when I was 18, but I'm really not willing to deal with paying my dues as the unskilled new guy, doing the stuff no one else wants to deal with, I mean hell, I'm 24 now!"
I don't like arseholes unwilling to earn the right to be a skilled worker, who want to shortcut straight to the position without learning the necessary skills to do it right, safely, and correctly.
either you are a ******* punk kid or a troll. which is it?
showlandjr
ArboristSite Lurker
That's a good question, as that is currently the option I am looking at considering that I can't even find a company who whats a ground guy.
Personally I don't mind the idea of doing the #### work for a while, there is a lot of my life still to go so I figure I have the time to help some people out doing #### work while I am young and inexperienced.
Not to mention that 24 is really nothing special anymore. I know lots of people WAY older then you who are still at low rung jobs of worse working at a convince store. I think you need to not be so entitled it will probably help you with getting work in what ever field you choose.
-Shelby
Personally I don't mind the idea of doing the #### work for a while, there is a lot of my life still to go so I figure I have the time to help some people out doing #### work while I am young and inexperienced.
Not to mention that 24 is really nothing special anymore. I know lots of people WAY older then you who are still at low rung jobs of worse working at a convince store. I think you need to not be so entitled it will probably help you with getting work in what ever field you choose.
-Shelby
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
No, especially ones that went to that college. I've got a lot of experience with graduates from paul smith's. You will spend two years there and then spend three years feeding a chipper before you are allowed to climb. Five years wasted instead of three. Paul Smith's does absolutely nothing to prepare a guy for the nitty gritty of tree work, and time usually has to be spent breaking graduates of bad habits or knocking the chip off their shoulder.
24 is still young. Around here, if you have a good attitude, are willing to work, are dependable, and really want to learn how to climb, usually six months behind a chipper to prove yourself and then the training will start. You will probably not be a full time climber for a couple years, but you will be taught during that time.
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sorry for the triple post, but something i wrote here a while ago.
I'm not one to crap on getting an education. But i think the "arborist" colleges these days are doing a very poor job of preparing a graduate for the nitty-gritty of tree work. If you are planning on going on and becoming a professor, then fine. If you are planning to graduate and then take over a tree crew, that probably isn't going to happen for you, simply because you haven't been taught the skills. Sure it's nice to know the scientific names of tree or tree diseases, but i wish these colleges spent a little more time on knots, chippers, basic maintenance, saw usage, filing, raking, or one of the other hundreds of things needed to know to run a productive crew.
A story, may be a little long, may be a little exaggerated, but over 20 college climbers have been run through my crew over the years and all these things have happened.
Here's how your first day is going to go:
You get up at 4 am. The girlfriend (or boyfriend) #####es that you shouldn't have to get up this early since you have a college degree, then rolls over and goes back to sleep.
You arrive at the shop by 5 am. You were told yesterday when you were hired that you were going to be running your own crew, but you are going to spend your first week on another climber's crew just so he can evaluate you and you can get a feel for things. You meet the climber and when he asks if you have your gear, you start bragging about your $500 worth of gear (not knowing he has over $10k invested in the tools of his trade.) He doesn't look too impressed and cuts you off telling you to load your stuff in the truck.
Halfway to the first job, the climber pulls over and tells you to hop into the other truck because he is tired of hearing about the stupid stuff you did in college that you think was cool.
You arrive at the job by 6 am but are already feeling a little down because the groundies have told you repeatedly to shut the #### up, they are tired of listening to your crap. You do perk up a bit as you head to the back yard with the climber to check out the job. It's just an old oak that needs to be deadwooded. When the climber asks if you can handle it, you gush that it will not be a problem because one of your professors once talked about trimming a tree that was twice the size of this one. The climber just rolls his eyes and tells you to gear up. As you are pulling on your saddle, you notice the groundies pulling out a couple other ropes. You ask what those ropes are for and the climber looks a little pained. He tells you to pull a saw out of the saw box and he does seem to perk up a bit when you tell him you brought your own saw. His face falls as you pull out a handsaw.
The crew adjourns to the backyard while you spend the next fifteen minutes fiddling with your gear. As you enter the yard, you notice that it looks like the climber has started chain smoking. You set your line on the third try and quickly get up the tree. You are pleased with yourself and notice the climber is even smiling a bit now.
You get positioned to make your first cut. The climber asks if you want to rope it since there is a garage partially underneath the tree. You reply that a rope isn't needed, you'll just cut everything small enough to be handled, just like they taught you in college. The climber has stopped smiling.
A couple hours go by. You feel you are making good progress. The groundies have had to run for cigarettes twice now for the climber. You're feeling thirsty, so start to come down for a water break. The climber asks what's up and when you reply, he says to stay put, water will be sent up. You are kind of irked-you really need a break since you have never spent more than two hours in a saddle before, but you decide to just suck it up.
You keep working. Noon rolls around. The 300 pound owner shows up and starts yelling, wanting to know why you are still on a job that should have been done hours ago. The climber steps in on your behalf, calms the owner down and sends him on his way-maybe the climber is not such a jerk after all. You are feeling hungry so ask when lunch is. The climber replies you'll get a lunch when you've done a half a day's work. Ah, there's the guy you've come to dislike. You keep working but soon the groundies are complaining because you are cutting everything to the size of a pencil. You think they must be crazy-those uneducated apes don't know what they are talking about. You lay your handsaw on a piece of dead oak thicker than your thigh and the climber suddenly loses it. He tells you to get out of the tree, he'll finish the job. You think to yourself that you can finally take a break. But that dream is soon dashed when the climber tells you to start dragging brush. You angrily go to work, thinking to yourself that you were hired to climb. You are at first a little afraid of the chipper, but soon get into the swing of things, until you plug the chipper completely up. The groundies growl at you as they work to unplug it. Quicker than you would have believed possible, the climber is back on the ground and the tree is done. As the last of the wood gets chipped, he hands you a rake. You look at him dumbly wondering what you need to rake. You then get a very loud lesson on how to clean up yards. You think you hear him mutter a few words about the rake handle and your rectum, but you can't be sure.
You and the crew arrive at the next job. It's a medium sized box elder in the back yard that the owner wants taken down. As you and the climber are checking out the job, you realize that this may be a good time to impress him. You start rattling off the latin names and characteristics of the maple family. You see he isn't impressed, so you decide to pull out the big guns and start in on a lecture about the evils of removals that was very popular in college. He tells you the tree is just a weed and walks away from you while you are still talking. You are a little hurt, but soon see another target you can try the lecture on-the homeowner. You go running over and state your piece, proud that you've done your part to save this noble tree. You smile as you see the homeowner go over to talk with the climber but are surprised when the homeowner tells the climber that he still wants the tree down and if you guys don't want to do it, he'll find a different company. You think it was a little cruel when the climber tells the guy that you are an idiot and to just ignore you.
You do perk up though when the climber tells you to grab some spikes and go ahead and do the half of the tree that isn't over the fence. Maybe he thinks you aren't a total waste! You get the gear on in twenty minutes, record time for you. You see huge pieces of the tree are already on the ground so you hurry into the yard. The climber takes one look at you from up the tree and tells you to take your gear off and help the groundies. You are crushed, what did you do wrong? One of the groundies snidely ask if you were planning on climbing a hollow tree. That's when you realize your spikes are on the outside of your feet. You cover up you embarrassment by telling the groundie that since the proper way to climb trees was without spikes, this was only the third time you've worn them. The groundie may have muttered something about having to put up with another one who uses antigravity to chunk down stems.
After hanging the gear in the truck, you reenter the yard. The climber asks if you can run a rope. You have to honestly tell him no, so he tells you to start dragging brush. After your thirtieth trip to the curb, you begin to wish that someone had taught you to run a rope-it looks so much easier than dragging brush. Your daydream is rudely interrupted by the climber yelling at you to stop being a wuss and haul more than one piece of brush at a time. A dozen trips later and you are in the yard when a piece is roped almost right at your feet. You jump in to untie the know, but are having problems. The branch has rolled over and the bowline is not loosening up. After struggling for a few seconds, one of the groundies nudges you aside and with a quick wrist flip the knot is undone. Another thing you wished you had been taught.
The job goes smoothly, you have learned the tricks of the chipper and brush dragging from the last job. Plus you feel a burst of energy because it is almost 5 pm and you know the day is almost over. As you are putting the last of the ropes away, you excitedly mention to the climber that it's time to go home. He just looks at you and laughs.
(continued)
I'm not one to crap on getting an education. But i think the "arborist" colleges these days are doing a very poor job of preparing a graduate for the nitty-gritty of tree work. If you are planning on going on and becoming a professor, then fine. If you are planning to graduate and then take over a tree crew, that probably isn't going to happen for you, simply because you haven't been taught the skills. Sure it's nice to know the scientific names of tree or tree diseases, but i wish these colleges spent a little more time on knots, chippers, basic maintenance, saw usage, filing, raking, or one of the other hundreds of things needed to know to run a productive crew.
A story, may be a little long, may be a little exaggerated, but over 20 college climbers have been run through my crew over the years and all these things have happened.
Here's how your first day is going to go:
You get up at 4 am. The girlfriend (or boyfriend) #####es that you shouldn't have to get up this early since you have a college degree, then rolls over and goes back to sleep.
You arrive at the shop by 5 am. You were told yesterday when you were hired that you were going to be running your own crew, but you are going to spend your first week on another climber's crew just so he can evaluate you and you can get a feel for things. You meet the climber and when he asks if you have your gear, you start bragging about your $500 worth of gear (not knowing he has over $10k invested in the tools of his trade.) He doesn't look too impressed and cuts you off telling you to load your stuff in the truck.
Halfway to the first job, the climber pulls over and tells you to hop into the other truck because he is tired of hearing about the stupid stuff you did in college that you think was cool.
You arrive at the job by 6 am but are already feeling a little down because the groundies have told you repeatedly to shut the #### up, they are tired of listening to your crap. You do perk up a bit as you head to the back yard with the climber to check out the job. It's just an old oak that needs to be deadwooded. When the climber asks if you can handle it, you gush that it will not be a problem because one of your professors once talked about trimming a tree that was twice the size of this one. The climber just rolls his eyes and tells you to gear up. As you are pulling on your saddle, you notice the groundies pulling out a couple other ropes. You ask what those ropes are for and the climber looks a little pained. He tells you to pull a saw out of the saw box and he does seem to perk up a bit when you tell him you brought your own saw. His face falls as you pull out a handsaw.
The crew adjourns to the backyard while you spend the next fifteen minutes fiddling with your gear. As you enter the yard, you notice that it looks like the climber has started chain smoking. You set your line on the third try and quickly get up the tree. You are pleased with yourself and notice the climber is even smiling a bit now.
You get positioned to make your first cut. The climber asks if you want to rope it since there is a garage partially underneath the tree. You reply that a rope isn't needed, you'll just cut everything small enough to be handled, just like they taught you in college. The climber has stopped smiling.
A couple hours go by. You feel you are making good progress. The groundies have had to run for cigarettes twice now for the climber. You're feeling thirsty, so start to come down for a water break. The climber asks what's up and when you reply, he says to stay put, water will be sent up. You are kind of irked-you really need a break since you have never spent more than two hours in a saddle before, but you decide to just suck it up.
You keep working. Noon rolls around. The 300 pound owner shows up and starts yelling, wanting to know why you are still on a job that should have been done hours ago. The climber steps in on your behalf, calms the owner down and sends him on his way-maybe the climber is not such a jerk after all. You are feeling hungry so ask when lunch is. The climber replies you'll get a lunch when you've done a half a day's work. Ah, there's the guy you've come to dislike. You keep working but soon the groundies are complaining because you are cutting everything to the size of a pencil. You think they must be crazy-those uneducated apes don't know what they are talking about. You lay your handsaw on a piece of dead oak thicker than your thigh and the climber suddenly loses it. He tells you to get out of the tree, he'll finish the job. You think to yourself that you can finally take a break. But that dream is soon dashed when the climber tells you to start dragging brush. You angrily go to work, thinking to yourself that you were hired to climb. You are at first a little afraid of the chipper, but soon get into the swing of things, until you plug the chipper completely up. The groundies growl at you as they work to unplug it. Quicker than you would have believed possible, the climber is back on the ground and the tree is done. As the last of the wood gets chipped, he hands you a rake. You look at him dumbly wondering what you need to rake. You then get a very loud lesson on how to clean up yards. You think you hear him mutter a few words about the rake handle and your rectum, but you can't be sure.
You and the crew arrive at the next job. It's a medium sized box elder in the back yard that the owner wants taken down. As you and the climber are checking out the job, you realize that this may be a good time to impress him. You start rattling off the latin names and characteristics of the maple family. You see he isn't impressed, so you decide to pull out the big guns and start in on a lecture about the evils of removals that was very popular in college. He tells you the tree is just a weed and walks away from you while you are still talking. You are a little hurt, but soon see another target you can try the lecture on-the homeowner. You go running over and state your piece, proud that you've done your part to save this noble tree. You smile as you see the homeowner go over to talk with the climber but are surprised when the homeowner tells the climber that he still wants the tree down and if you guys don't want to do it, he'll find a different company. You think it was a little cruel when the climber tells the guy that you are an idiot and to just ignore you.
You do perk up though when the climber tells you to grab some spikes and go ahead and do the half of the tree that isn't over the fence. Maybe he thinks you aren't a total waste! You get the gear on in twenty minutes, record time for you. You see huge pieces of the tree are already on the ground so you hurry into the yard. The climber takes one look at you from up the tree and tells you to take your gear off and help the groundies. You are crushed, what did you do wrong? One of the groundies snidely ask if you were planning on climbing a hollow tree. That's when you realize your spikes are on the outside of your feet. You cover up you embarrassment by telling the groundie that since the proper way to climb trees was without spikes, this was only the third time you've worn them. The groundie may have muttered something about having to put up with another one who uses antigravity to chunk down stems.
After hanging the gear in the truck, you reenter the yard. The climber asks if you can run a rope. You have to honestly tell him no, so he tells you to start dragging brush. After your thirtieth trip to the curb, you begin to wish that someone had taught you to run a rope-it looks so much easier than dragging brush. Your daydream is rudely interrupted by the climber yelling at you to stop being a wuss and haul more than one piece of brush at a time. A dozen trips later and you are in the yard when a piece is roped almost right at your feet. You jump in to untie the know, but are having problems. The branch has rolled over and the bowline is not loosening up. After struggling for a few seconds, one of the groundies nudges you aside and with a quick wrist flip the knot is undone. Another thing you wished you had been taught.
The job goes smoothly, you have learned the tricks of the chipper and brush dragging from the last job. Plus you feel a burst of energy because it is almost 5 pm and you know the day is almost over. As you are putting the last of the ropes away, you excitedly mention to the climber that it's time to go home. He just looks at you and laughs.
(continued)
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
You wonder what's going on during the ride, until you realize that you are pulling up to another job! Noooooo! You drag yourself out of the truck, a simple job, just two limbs on a silver maple hanging over a garage. The climber asks if you want to do it. You just shake your head no. You are too tired to say much and you realize the job will probably get done sooner if the climber does it. He tells you to grab the grcs. You stand there trying to figure it out. One of the groundies helps you. You can't figure out why you've never heard of such a handy tool. The climber can see you are barely walking, so tells you to back the chipper into the driveway. You think "such a nice guy." It takes you thirty minutes but you finally get it after only driving on the lawn twice. The homeowner then shows up and yells at you about the ruts in the lawn. Then the climber joins the refrain. You just nod dumbly, too tired to defend yourself. You do notice that the climber is no longer using your name but is calling you something derogatory that is not flattering to your lineage.
The first branch hits the ground. You notice it's way to big to be dragged, and also notice that the groundies are just messing with something on the back of the chipper. This is your time to shine! You run and grab the first saw you see and head back to the yard. The groundies are hooking up a cable to the branch that runs to the back of the chipper? Oh, something else you wish you'd been taught. A groundie asks what you had planned to do with the 395. You realize that maybe a three foot bar is a little overkill. Then that damned climber from hell has to chip in again. He tells you that as long as you have it out, sharpen it. You are proud of yourself-he is trying to prank you but you can see right through it. You reply that it can't be sharpened since there is no grinder on the truck. The climber then said something that sounded like files and an enema, but the chipper started up just then and you missed it.
Anyway, the job is finally done. You are headed back to the shop. You perk up a bit-it was a horrible day but it's almost over. Then that stupid climber has to ruin things for you again as you pull into the yard. First the crew has to fuel up the trucks and chipper. Then some maintenance. One of the groundies shows you how to grease the chipper. As you give the gun a pump, a gob of grease spurt out and lands on your Paul Smith's t-shirt. You are almost in tears. As you head to the sink to see if you can wash out the stain, you hear the groundmen wonder about your sexual orientation. You also hear the owner and the climber shouting in the office. As you finish at the sink, the owner comes out and walks over to have a few words. He says he knows the first day was rough, but he'd like you to come back tomorrow and work with a different crew. He also mentions that he'd like you to get the work done a little faster. You are only half listening since you are sure the owner is wrong because your professor always lets you take as long as you want in the tree. In fact, you think about giving the professor a call so you two can laugh about this fool who wants you to work faster. Working faster is unsafe, doesn't he know that.
You finally stagger home at 10 pm. Your supper is cold. Your girlfriend/boyfriend wants to go out and party. You two get in a huge fight when you tell her/him you can't. You are so sore you can barely stand! As the door slams behind her/him on the way out and you collapse on the couch, you realize that maybe college did not do a good job preparing you for this.
The first branch hits the ground. You notice it's way to big to be dragged, and also notice that the groundies are just messing with something on the back of the chipper. This is your time to shine! You run and grab the first saw you see and head back to the yard. The groundies are hooking up a cable to the branch that runs to the back of the chipper? Oh, something else you wish you'd been taught. A groundie asks what you had planned to do with the 395. You realize that maybe a three foot bar is a little overkill. Then that damned climber from hell has to chip in again. He tells you that as long as you have it out, sharpen it. You are proud of yourself-he is trying to prank you but you can see right through it. You reply that it can't be sharpened since there is no grinder on the truck. The climber then said something that sounded like files and an enema, but the chipper started up just then and you missed it.
Anyway, the job is finally done. You are headed back to the shop. You perk up a bit-it was a horrible day but it's almost over. Then that stupid climber has to ruin things for you again as you pull into the yard. First the crew has to fuel up the trucks and chipper. Then some maintenance. One of the groundies shows you how to grease the chipper. As you give the gun a pump, a gob of grease spurt out and lands on your Paul Smith's t-shirt. You are almost in tears. As you head to the sink to see if you can wash out the stain, you hear the groundmen wonder about your sexual orientation. You also hear the owner and the climber shouting in the office. As you finish at the sink, the owner comes out and walks over to have a few words. He says he knows the first day was rough, but he'd like you to come back tomorrow and work with a different crew. He also mentions that he'd like you to get the work done a little faster. You are only half listening since you are sure the owner is wrong because your professor always lets you take as long as you want in the tree. In fact, you think about giving the professor a call so you two can laugh about this fool who wants you to work faster. Working faster is unsafe, doesn't he know that.
You finally stagger home at 10 pm. Your supper is cold. Your girlfriend/boyfriend wants to go out and party. You two get in a huge fight when you tell her/him you can't. You are so sore you can barely stand! As the door slams behind her/him on the way out and you collapse on the couch, you realize that maybe college did not do a good job preparing you for this.
ozzy42
Addicted to ArboristSite
Wow,Tell us how you really feel bw. lol.
The story you just posted sounds exactly the same as when I finished
truck driving school back in 98.
I found out after being hired by a company and then put in a truck with an
experienced driver that,,,I was not taught to drive a truck in school,I was taught to pass the test to obtain my CDLs.
I was informed to forget about 90% of the crap that I had just paid to
have them teach me.That was a little hard to take ,but realized after a few days in the truck that my trainer was indeed right.
After 4weeks I had sifted thru and divided which 10% to retain and which 90% to throw away.
The big difference is,I only invested 8 weekends and $2500,not 2 years
and God knows how much $$
The story you just posted sounds exactly the same as when I finished
truck driving school back in 98.
I found out after being hired by a company and then put in a truck with an
experienced driver that,,,I was not taught to drive a truck in school,I was taught to pass the test to obtain my CDLs.
I was informed to forget about 90% of the crap that I had just paid to
have them teach me.That was a little hard to take ,but realized after a few days in the truck that my trainer was indeed right.
After 4weeks I had sifted thru and divided which 10% to retain and which 90% to throw away.
The big difference is,I only invested 8 weekends and $2500,not 2 years
and God knows how much $$
treeslayer
Addicted to ArboristSite
good. beat it. you are a waste of oxygen in this world with your sense of entitlement and total disrespect.
and your posts are clearly the work of a troll, I've seen plenty and done it myself.
c,mon troll, keep running your mouth online. :hmm3grin2orange:
you wouldn't last a minute around me.
Kottonwood
ArboristSite Operative
I am 25 and started in tree work when I was at the ripe old age of 24. I currently work as a subcontractor and climb everyday. I too am a bit of an adrenaline junky and I can say that you will definitely get your kicks in this business, though obviously you will do everything as safely as possible.
If you go and work for a small tree company, show a hard work ethic as well as a willingness and ability to learn then you shouldn't have to be a grunt for three years. Since you already have the physical ability to climb that will help. In my opinion no one wants to deal with someone trying to learn that isn't even physically capable and if the senior guys think you're not capable it will be a long time before they're willing to put some time into letting you try.
As far as school is concerned I have found school to be an extremely valuable resource but it is definitely not the be all end all. I go to school at a local community college two nights a week for horticulture, it is the closest thing I could find. At school I learn things about tree biology, soil science, planting, etc etc. Everything else is on the job training.
My advice to you is to get a job at a tree service working as a ground guy. You'll be able to see how things work, and how brutal our day to day labor can be. If you still dig it after that start looking into schools and try to get someone to start training you as a climber at work.
If you go and work for a small tree company, show a hard work ethic as well as a willingness and ability to learn then you shouldn't have to be a grunt for three years. Since you already have the physical ability to climb that will help. In my opinion no one wants to deal with someone trying to learn that isn't even physically capable and if the senior guys think you're not capable it will be a long time before they're willing to put some time into letting you try.
As far as school is concerned I have found school to be an extremely valuable resource but it is definitely not the be all end all. I go to school at a local community college two nights a week for horticulture, it is the closest thing I could find. At school I learn things about tree biology, soil science, planting, etc etc. Everything else is on the job training.
My advice to you is to get a job at a tree service working as a ground guy. You'll be able to see how things work, and how brutal our day to day labor can be. If you still dig it after that start looking into schools and try to get someone to start training you as a climber at work.
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm 41, I base my exsitance off of doing what the other guys wont do. It makes you an integral part of the wheel.
I spent 12 years as a machinist, I've still a lot to learn, but I got pigeonholed, I had a knack for being able to run five axis mills and manipulating titanium. I wasn't learning any more and got burnt out.
I sub for a contract climber now and again, I run the ropes and shag the brush, I've found I don't much care for climbing. It hurts and I'm slow, I'd rather get done and go home!
I'll climb for take downs of my own, about the only real tree work I care to do on my own.
It's expensive, it's hard work, there are things that need to be beat into your head over and over again so you understand the importance of it. This job is more dangerous than most people think! Get in a hurry, cut off a hand, cut off an arm, cut off a leg or cut your life line. Lots of things to go wrong. Falling out of a tree doesn't usually end well for anyone either.
Go work for a small company for a summer, see if you like it. If you can't keep up with the groundies and think that is miserable work, don't waste the time and money to go any further. The groundies have the easy job!
I spent 12 years as a machinist, I've still a lot to learn, but I got pigeonholed, I had a knack for being able to run five axis mills and manipulating titanium. I wasn't learning any more and got burnt out.
I sub for a contract climber now and again, I run the ropes and shag the brush, I've found I don't much care for climbing. It hurts and I'm slow, I'd rather get done and go home!
I'll climb for take downs of my own, about the only real tree work I care to do on my own.
It's expensive, it's hard work, there are things that need to be beat into your head over and over again so you understand the importance of it. This job is more dangerous than most people think! Get in a hurry, cut off a hand, cut off an arm, cut off a leg or cut your life line. Lots of things to go wrong. Falling out of a tree doesn't usually end well for anyone either.
Go work for a small company for a summer, see if you like it. If you can't keep up with the groundies and think that is miserable work, don't waste the time and money to go any further. The groundies have the easy job!
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
I started out running Burgmaster multi-spindle drill presses, progressed to the CNC equipment but never got to learn the set-ups or programing. Worked there five years.
Left and went to a mold shop, all conventional, had to learn a lot, the hard way, quickly! They went under six months later.
I worked for a company that built custom automated machinery, I was delegated to conventional, never got to play with the CNC stuff much there, but they bought a NICE series II Bridgeport for me to run! Got laid off.
Went to a medium size shop, was there two weeks and was the new tool and die builder. Got burnt out going in at 5am and leaving at 10pm regularly.
Worked in several small shops running conventional then I got hooked up with a shop doing "quick and dirty off load" for aircraft. The truck showed up at 9am and most of the parts were expected to be on the next truck at 4pm the same day.
We would sit around the break table and hand write progams, test them, then make the run. Or set up what I could do quickly and easily on the conventional machines. I learned a lot at that place!
I could go on, but I think you get the idea, I had to pay a LOT of dues to get anywhere! Then when I got "there" it got really stupid! Parts they hadn't managed to get right for ten years, they give to me. Don't know if the tooling is wrong, don't know if the program is wrong, just fix it!
Training guys on machines I didn't know anything about!
I had to teach myself how to run the first three spindle mill because the guy that ran it was worried about his job security so he didn't want to teach me anything, then he hid away the edited programs deep in the system so everyone that followed him looked like an idiot. I figured it out, fixed all the progams and went on with life.
It's the same anywhere, you can't just walk in and be the king without some type of background behind you. Even the, trust me on this, when the boss does hire you to be a supervisor, you get less respect from the crew. They don't know you from Adam and are resentful you got the position they think they deserved.
Now in the tree business, they aren't near as "refined" as what you saw in machine shops. Trust me! They can and will call you whatever they want. They can and will shut down half way through the day if they don't think you pulled your weight earlier. And they can get away with this and the boss will most likely praise them for breaking you in proper, if he doesn't just send you home.
As for the groundies having the easy job, go get a rope, throw it in a tree and tie it off to something. Pull yourself up that a couple times, try to keep track of that rope and move around in the tree. Look at the dead or broken branches and figure out how you are going to get your happy ass to them! A groundies job is underrated and miserable work for sure, but the climber works harder than that and had to earn the right to work that hard!
Left and went to a mold shop, all conventional, had to learn a lot, the hard way, quickly! They went under six months later.
I worked for a company that built custom automated machinery, I was delegated to conventional, never got to play with the CNC stuff much there, but they bought a NICE series II Bridgeport for me to run! Got laid off.
Went to a medium size shop, was there two weeks and was the new tool and die builder. Got burnt out going in at 5am and leaving at 10pm regularly.
Worked in several small shops running conventional then I got hooked up with a shop doing "quick and dirty off load" for aircraft. The truck showed up at 9am and most of the parts were expected to be on the next truck at 4pm the same day.
We would sit around the break table and hand write progams, test them, then make the run. Or set up what I could do quickly and easily on the conventional machines. I learned a lot at that place!
I could go on, but I think you get the idea, I had to pay a LOT of dues to get anywhere! Then when I got "there" it got really stupid! Parts they hadn't managed to get right for ten years, they give to me. Don't know if the tooling is wrong, don't know if the program is wrong, just fix it!
Training guys on machines I didn't know anything about!
I had to teach myself how to run the first three spindle mill because the guy that ran it was worried about his job security so he didn't want to teach me anything, then he hid away the edited programs deep in the system so everyone that followed him looked like an idiot. I figured it out, fixed all the progams and went on with life.
It's the same anywhere, you can't just walk in and be the king without some type of background behind you. Even the, trust me on this, when the boss does hire you to be a supervisor, you get less respect from the crew. They don't know you from Adam and are resentful you got the position they think they deserved.
Now in the tree business, they aren't near as "refined" as what you saw in machine shops. Trust me! They can and will call you whatever they want. They can and will shut down half way through the day if they don't think you pulled your weight earlier. And they can get away with this and the boss will most likely praise them for breaking you in proper, if he doesn't just send you home.
As for the groundies having the easy job, go get a rope, throw it in a tree and tie it off to something. Pull yourself up that a couple times, try to keep track of that rope and move around in the tree. Look at the dead or broken branches and figure out how you are going to get your happy ass to them! A groundies job is underrated and miserable work for sure, but the climber works harder than that and had to earn the right to work that hard!
Kottonwood
ArboristSite Operative
All arborist work pretty much includes labor unless you are gonna be a consulting arborist or something like that. In order to do that you still have to work your way up, no one is gonna hire a consulting arborist that has never done any tree work. My brother has a four year degree in forest health from ESF which is a damn good school for forestry. He currently works as a ground guy making 12 bucks an hour. I don't think you can really get into this industry without doing the labor. I know a lot of guys that got out of school then went the PHC route, but in my opinion it's much more fun to climb. If you really don't want to do any labor then maybe that is one thing you can look at, it's still labor though it's just not as demanding as tree work.
Any good tree company is going to have plenty of jobs where you are diagnosing and correcting problems as well as clearing branches over roofs and whatnot. I would say at least sixty percent of the work I do is "corrective pruning". Pruning is very labor intensive as well, you still have to climb the whole tree and you have to do it without damaging anything or wearing spikes. I don't know how you think that removing a problematic tree is not labor intensive. Cutting down a 65 foot tall dead and hazardous cottonwood in someones tiny backyard is an extremely laborous task.
I have never worked for something as a big as a college or city, though I did just get a contract at a golf course. I go to school with a couple of grounds maintenance guys for one of the local universities and they contract their tree work out to one of the local tree companies. It seems like in most circumstances there wouldn't be enough tree work for a small municipality or a school to have a permanent guy for it, so most contract it out.
Also here is a little piece of advise that the first guy that hired me told me. "If you can climb and prune, you'll never go without a job" So far I have seen that to be true. Almost any tree company I have worked for would hire a good climber right now, or any time. That doesn't necessarily mean that you will always be making a ton of money, but if you get good at this finding a job shouldn't be a problem.
Kottonwood
ArboristSite Operative
Haha I hear that from my groundies all the time. Then I put them in a tree for a while and they shut their mouths. Climbing is definitely the fun part, but that doesn't mean it's easier. Personally, I don't care how hard it is. I love climbing trees and I wouldn't want to be dragging brush anymore, even if it is easier work. I enjoy going to work every day and smile every morning when I am getting my rope ready and staring up at a big nasty tree I need to trim.
I must say though sometimes on removals it seems like the ground crew has the hard job. For pruning though, they definitely get a lot of standing around time.
Highclimber OR
ArboristSite Operative
Sir you are 24 I am 28 I started this gig when I was a kid and have been climbing for quite a while now. I put the hooks on for the first time when I was 10 started climbing full time when I was 18 and let me say it is a very bitter/sweet profession and often somewhat of a feast or famine situation. It is a tough way to go, you take a lot of risks even if you work safely and a fair number of individuals that you will work with and encounter will likely be some type of drug user or at least drinks regularly. The pay is good most of the time but for what you have to go through certainly not one of the better lines especially with a lib arts degree sorry to say will help you not. When you said something about more of the rec end of things or the science field I would say based on your posts that may be a good path for you. Climber/Arborist is a noble profession but certainly not for most. I have met many with a similar background as you and about 0% have become legitimate climbers, you either got it or you don't and you have to have a level of legitimate crazy in you to do what needs to be done now and again and you will get hurt it is a matter of when and how bad. There are much better paying jobs that are easier than this I would advise against it on your part, Sir.
TreeAce
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well put. I must say I LOL for real when I saw this thread . No offense to TristanD though . As soon as I saw it I knew TreeSlayer was gonna go off....lol. Anyway TristanD since u said u saw the replys to a similiar thread from just the other day , I will assume u read my little part there.
TreeAce
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was given that same advice back in the day and I agree it's true . The hard part is becoming a GOOD climber . But after that...you will work . You may not make much..but you can get a job!! For the most part.
cthompson1
ArboristSite Lurker
I am actually attending Paul Smith's college right now for arb. Im really not a fan of the program here. I was thinking this would teach me the finer points but so far it is just how it was described previously...geared more towards someone who would want to teach it not do the real tree work for a living. We learn alot more about the science of trees, and their pest related problems. We only learn the basics in climbing and I mean the basics. We climb twice a week for a semester totalling about 8hrs a week during which time we learn nothing of advances hitches or rigging. Most of our actual nitty gritty expirience comes from our summer long externship with a certified arborist. People previously in the program have told me this is where they learned alot of their techniques, so what I am trying to say is listen to these guys and just get some work expirience if you do in the end decide you want to do this job. I think the only step ahead of good old work expirience I gained was the science related to trees and tree health but even that could be questioned. I sure didnt get any farther ahead in climbing though.
TimberJack_7
ArboristSite Operative
All I can do is LOL when these pups stumble into the wolves den and don't even know it.
At this point you don't know what you don't know. Like everybody said, go be a groundie and learn it from the ground up. If you are going to stick around this forum you better thicken up that skin some, what these guys give you here is just a teensy weensy taste of what it is like out there working with a tree crew.
Great story Beowulf. I think we should make it a permanent 101 topic for the new folks that think they want to be tree climbers. Kind of like make it required reading before they post something silly like - "Hey guys I just watched a tree crew do a removal at my mommy and daddy's house now I want to be a tree climber!"
At this point you don't know what you don't know. Like everybody said, go be a groundie and learn it from the ground up. If you are going to stick around this forum you better thicken up that skin some, what these guys give you here is just a teensy weensy taste of what it is like out there working with a tree crew.
Great story Beowulf. I think we should make it a permanent 101 topic for the new folks that think they want to be tree climbers. Kind of like make it required reading before they post something silly like - "Hey guys I just watched a tree crew do a removal at my mommy and daddy's house now I want to be a tree climber!"
