Lopsided tree due to powerline arborist maintenance, dangerous?

[keithphw]

Hi,
These 2 eucalyptus trees are next to my house and they look dangerously lopsided to me and in danger of being blown over in the next storm.
Was wondering if you agreed?
Ausgrid's powerline tree loppers have cut all branches off on the western side only.
The trees sit at the top of Pennant Hills Sydney, NSW Australia.


Another gum tree narrowly scraped our house in the fierce Feb 2020 storms, hence our heightened alertness

To us, lopping one side only of these 2 tall lone trees at the top of a hill subject to tremendous winds appears grossly negligent.
We'd be grateful for any opinions.
Cheers,
Keith

 

[Cogito]

They look to be Euc. maculata? Though lopped trees like that look ugly, and I've done worse for powerline clearance, they aren't that badly off balance. I assume this has been done regularly and they have just been a bit more severe this time. Any decrease of canopy will reduce the potential 'sail' load in strong wind, though the actual physics involved in a full canopy is extremely complicated. Winds are rarely continuous in both speed and direction. This usually means that some parts of the canopy will be moving in opposite directions at the same time. Good luck trying to get the power company to accept any liability for what they've done. I'm surprised they didn't send you a bill for that hack job. If it has been done regularly then theoretically the tree will have compensated for the balance issue. You'll see a lot worse in a smaller tree trying to escape the shadow of a larger neighbour. As with everything on this forum, it's all care taken, no liability accepted. If you are really concerned, which would be understandable seeing that one that failed, you need to get an arboricultural report. Not cheap but they will give you a much more dependable opinion of the risk.

 

[keithphw]

Thanks Cogito for your swift reply.

 

[Cogito]

Happy to help. That’s a tree with a real balance issue.

 

[keithphw]

Just an update:
Ausgrid the powerline company sent an arborist to visually inspect the trees. He initially acknowledged that the lop-sided tree maintenance has increased the danger of the trees falling. But after 5 minutes walking around the trees he insisted they posed "no danger".

One thing he asked me was how the triangular gashes on the trunk got there. I said they were the climbing spikes used by the arborist to scale the trees.
I didn't think much of it, but looked it up later and found that "Climbing spikes are not to be used on or in sections of the tree to be retained" (Australian Standard AS4373 Pruning of Amenity Trees, https://treenet.org/resources/as4373-an-update/)
Apparently it dooms the health of the tree and this is widely known:
https://www.tcia.org/TCIA/Blog_Items/2017/Don_t_Use_Climbing_Spikes_When_Pruning_Trees.aspx
https://gastonstreeservice.com/tree-climbing-spikes-more-harm-than-good/

I was pretty upset when I read about this, the inspecting arborist didn't make this clear and chose to ignore it.
Judging by the number of gashes in the tree, climbing spikes have been used to scale this tree routinely for years.
Do you think the climbing spike gashes are likely to cause serious problems?
Thanks for your opinions and help.

 

[Brufab]

Possibly down the road. But it does open the tree up for disease/insects and rot. It does accelerate those issues

 

[Brufab]

Here in usa it's frowned upon and/or illegal to prune oak trees in areas of oak wilt. Either take the whole tree down or have to prune while tree is dormant october/March and no spikes are to be used on oak that is to be saved

 

[Brufab]

Just an update:
Ausgrid the powerline company sent an arborist to visually inspect the trees. He initially acknowledged that the lop-sided tree maintenance has increased the danger of the trees falling. But after 5 minutes walking around the trees he insisted they posed "no danger".

One thing he asked me was how the triangular gashes on the trunk got there. I said they were the climbing spikes used by the arborist to scale the trees.
I didn't think much of it, but looked it up later and found that "Climbing spikes are not to be used on or in sections of the tree to be retained" (Australian Standard AS4373 Pruning of Amenity Trees, https://treenet.org/resources/as4373-an-update/)
Apparently it dooms the health of the tree and this is widely known:
https://www.tcia.org/TCIA/Blog_Items/2017/Don_t_Use_Climbing_Spikes_When_Pruning_Trees.aspx
https://gastonstreeservice.com/tree-climbing-spikes-more-harm-than-good/

I was pretty upset when I read about this, the inspecting arborist didn't make this clear and chose to ignore it.
Judging by the number of gashes in the tree, climbing spikes have been used to scale this tree routinely for years.
Do you think the climbing spike gashes are likely to cause serious problems?
Thanks for your opinions and help.

That tree looks dead now??? I never seen gum tree in person.

 

[keithphw]

That tree looks dead now??? I never seen gum tree in person.

Hi Brufab, thanks for your reply.
The tree is still alive. That new photo is a shot of the base of the same big one as shown in the first two photos in my original post.
This gum tree (eucalyptus) has very thin bark so the gashes penetrate deeply and go right the way up the trunk where the climbers have walked over many years.
Here's another shot of the same tree.

 

[Cogito]

Is there some way for me to delete the red circles in that photo. It doesn’t seem reasonable to have that many spike wounds that low on the trunk. Even if he was a complete amateur on spikes they would suggest that he danced a little jig on the base of that tree. We used to use spikes for climbing palm trees. As they are a monocot, essentially an over enthusiastic grass, their cambium is spread around multiple ‘tubes’ in the trunk rather than the dicot structure with all the cambium concentrated in a single layer just beneath the ‘bark’ or phloem and external to the xylem. This means that the trunk grows from the inside while the outer surface is made up of dead tissue. Those factors mean that spikes cause less damage to the cambium and they can compartmentalise with minimal loss of conductive tissue. Sorry, you probably weren’t needing a lecture. Skip to the end and I would only need to spike every 500mm or so and as these were often regular customers you could insert your spikes into the same holes each time you climbed it. As for the risk of infection entering through the holes much of the literature is based on conditions in Europe where trees grow and heal relatively slowly. With the ridiculous growth rate of eucalypts in Australia, especially if they are getting any reticulation, infection is a relatively rare issue that usually only effects a small selection of species.

 

[keithphw]

Thanks Cogito, very interesting. I appreciate your detailed knowledge.
This tree is lopped at least once per year by TreeServe who contract for Ausgrid to maintain the trees around the powerlines, so many climbing arborists have 'danced their jig' up the trunk. The tree is also situated on a mound and this side I took the photo on is the highest and flattest point that I imagine would be most convenient to start climbing. I don't know why they don't just throw a rope over one of the many branches on the eastern side rather than use the harmful spikes.
Sorry about the red circles, here's the plain version:

 

[Cogito]

Did this ‘arborist’ give any indication of his qualifications. Some people would probably be happy to call themselves an arborist with only a Cert.II. I would suggest a Cert.III and completion of a course on Quantitative Risk Assessment for trees would be the minimum requirements to provide an assessment of risk.

 

[Cogito]

They do look like spike wounds. People tend to use spikes as it is a much quicker and easier way ascend. That many spike marks suggest the climber was inexperienced and probably uncomfortable on his spikes. That would usually mean that he would prefer to throw a line and ascend that way. Maybe he’s being schooled in spike use and was told he had to be on them until he had become comfortable. I was sent up a cocos palm to set a line for felling it on my first day. That’s probably not very common but I already new the whole crew, one of whom was my brother. I also started in trees back when it was acceptable to take stupid risks and do really dangerous things just for a laugh. We had what might be called ‘boundary issues’ these days. I set my brother on fire one day at work only to learn that that is not considered acceptable behaviour in the work place.

 

[keithphw]

Thanks Cogito, interesting. I've sent a follow-up complaint about the spikes issue and will let you know what they say.
Next time I'll also ask about their qualifications.
However, I get the feeling that qualifiactions are unlikely to matter when the inspecting arborists are employed and 100% captured by management who pressure them to cut costs and overlook concerns rather than give their professional unbiased opinions.

 

[ken morgan]

We had what might be called ‘boundary issues’ these days. I set my brother on fire one day at work only to learn that that is not considered acceptable behaviour in the work place.

Sounds like a typical day in garrison in the Marine Corps... we had one idiot set a matress on fire ****ing around with shoe polish. you would lite the shoe polish with a lighter and let it melt the rest of the polish, cover with a lid to put out the flames and then use the softened wax to do your boots and dress shoes with. this idiot got into a pissing contest with another member in the squad bay and they were flinging flaming wax at each other. idiot boy flung some and let the whole can go it ended up on a mattress and that ****er went up. So did that PFC.

Edit: for clarification this was thirty some odd years ago on Okinawa when we still had open squad bays.

 

[Cogito]

Thanks Cogito, interesting. I've sent a follow-up complaint about the spikes issue and will let you know what they say.
Next time I'll also ask about their qualifications.
However, I get the feeling that qualifiactions are unlikely to matter when the inspecting arborists are employed and 100% captured by management who pressure them to cut costs and overlook concerns rather than give their professional unbiased opinions.

While any senior consulting arborist will be an expert at producing a report that seems clear and concise while not actually committing to any opinion. The power company, their tree contractor and any other layer in the mix can easily be held to account for sending someone to assess the risk posed by a tree who is not suitably qualified. I think any respectable arb company, consultant or even legal team would accept that a minimum of Cert.III with specific quantitative risk assessment training would be required.

 

[Cogito]

Sounds like a typical day in garrison in the Marine Corps... we had one idiot set a matress on fire ****ing around with shoe polish. you would lite the shoe polish with a lighter and let it melt the rest of the polish, cover with a lid to put out the flames and then use the softened wax to do your boots and dress shoes with. this idiot got into a pissing contest with another member in the squad bay and they were flinging flaming wax at each other. idiot boy flung some and let the whole can go it ended up on a mattress and that ****er went up. So did that PFC.

Edit: for clarification this was thirty some odd years ago on Okinawa when we still had open squad bays.

That incident occurred because earlier in the day I was sitting in the passenger seat in the Landy with my elbow resting out the door. My brother placed his lit cigarette behind my elbow and then called name causing me to turn and burn my elbow. All very amusing. Later that day my brother was sitting in the same seat with the door open. I poured a capful of two stroke threw it onto his jeans and set him alight. Problem was I had overestimated how much fuel to use and it took both of us frantically smothering the flames to put him out. Needless to say no-one tried a trick like that on me again.

 

[Brufab]

Hi Brufab, thanks for your reply.
The tree is still alive. That new photo is a shot of the base of the same big one as shown in the first two photos in my original post.
This gum tree (eucalyptus) has very thin bark so the gashes penetrate deeply and go right the way up the trunk where the climbers have walked over many years.
Here's another shot of the same tree.
View attachment 967116

Great pics. And I'm sorry to hear about the poor workmanship of the power companies contracted arborists. I would think the gashes promote rot/disease/insect infiltration. Hopefully you are able to resolve the issue. Keep all of the detailed pics and and information gathered just incase there needs to be any claims filed in the future. Good luck

 

[Stihl a grasshopper]

You would be surprised what a tree can do. I know these are a different species, but here are a couple pines near my house that I’ve been through many hurricanes.

All things considered though, if you are worried about the balance of the tree and then potentially coming over, as well as possible disease from the spike damage, you may be able to just get them to take the whole tree down next time for free especially if they know they messed up by using the spikes.

 

[CacaoBoy]

Some people would probably be happy to call themselves an arborist with only a Cert.II.

Around here it seems that anyone can call themselves an arborist, no training required. To see the work of one area "arborist" take a look at
https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/banyan-trim-gone-wrong.319408/