Math Question

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Lumberjack

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If I had a rope and it was tied to 2 anchors, much like a speedline except with no angle to the ground, and I put 100 pounds on a pulley in the center of the rope, how much weight would i be putting on the rope. I don't mean vertically, but horizonally or pulling or whatever it is called.

What is the formula?

Thanks
Carl
 
PLEASE!!!

Don't do Carls' homework for him.

Carl,

Do yourself a favor, buy Don Blair's book, Arborist Equipment. Then read it cover to cover. In fact, if you do buy the book and don't feel that its worth the money, I'll buy it from you and pay all of the shipping fees too. You'll be a better arborist in the end.

There might be some remains of the "Loads on a speedline" thread in the archives at the ISA site. It would be worth your time to go look in the archives.

Tom
 
Well, let's assume for a second that you cannot really have that line perfectly horizontal. As soon as you put a load on it, it sags a tiny bit. So rather than a 180degree angle (perfectly flat), you end up with something of an angle. At about 120degrees, a very, very shallow "V", your hundred pound load will put 100lbs at EACH ANCHOR.

The steeper the V, the less the load at the anchors. At around 20*, (A sorta tight "V") the load is shared at each anchor, 50lbs at each tree.

Something to think about while in the tree.

For review....
20* put's half at each anchor point
120* puts a full load at each anchor point.

love
nick


l
 
I would perfer the formula as aposed to buying a 78 dollar book.

But if you are serious then I will have it in my hands wendsday, but I heard it wasn't worth the money.

Carl
 
Carl,

What's the person's name who said it wasn't worth the money? Have they read the book? They can't be serious but I am. I'd rather have an extra book to loan out. My copy is one of the original, signed 100 copies. When that gets loaned out, I put it in peoples hands, look them in the eye before I let go, and let them know that if the book doesn't come back to me that they must never show up in my life again.

Are you an ISA CA? If so, you can get CEUs for reading AE. Not a bad deal.

I've been selling copies of The Tree Climbers Companion with the same guarantee for many years. So far, no refunds. In fact, my TCC guarantee is better. I refund the money and they keep the book. I'm not a gambler. I'm confident in my bets.

Tom
 
I won't tell you his name because yall will jump on him just for breathing.

I have the TCC, and I will order the book in the morning. I will read it cover to cover and let you know what I think (honestly). Is Nick right though?


And no I am not an ISA CA.


Carl
 
Don Blair signed my copy while he was in Hawaii. Good reading and worth 10 CEUs too. Worth buying just to get the CEUs.
 
Arborist Equipment is definitely worth the read. It isn't the be all and end all of arboriculture-it doesn't claim to be either. It is , however, a great deal more than a simple catalog or series of lists of equipment. I predict that Tom will have to buy a loaner copy firsthand.:)
 
Part of the answer is in how tight line is as a variable i think, then the impact of the 100#, leveraged length of line; ever see a sideways '8'?


How many things would you have to learn from a $70 book to use everyday , or save a life would you have to learn to make such a book worhwhile?
 
Originally posted by Tom Dunlap
PLEASE!!!

Don't do Carls' homework for him.


So now, instead of answering someones simple question, we tell them to 'look it up'?

Sheesh. Sounds like a cop-out to me. :(
 
MB,

You could play along here or do what you want.

If you know the formula you could let him know. Or maybe you don't know the formula yourself. It's fun to tease once in a while :)

Cop out, yeah right :)

Tom
 
cop out/ book

If the book doesn't save/make you the $78 something is wrong. You read the book to give you an idea of what's out there and what can be done, same can be said about this forum but you have to read it.
 
Big deal. Someone asks a question and we tell them to go buy a book. :confused: :confused: :confused:

It looks like the answer is on page 187 if I am understanding the question correctly.

Whatever the load is gets doubled at the pulley/roping spot.

How hard wuz that? :)
 
Carl;

When you get the book, turn to pages 175 and 176 for the answer to your question. Nick explained it well. The book has a little more information and some diagrams.

Was there a particular situation that made you ask about this?

Mahk
 
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DAn,

Do you have any of the other information from the "Forces on a speedline" thread? If so, I would dearly love to have them. That was the glory days, wasn't it?

If you only have the spread sheet, please send it. There's a good chance that Dave and Lorne will be at TCI.

Tom
 
T - it was in the package...
Quite a time and place; though here i didn't see that timeless, simple advice of "Strong limbs and snug ropes!" in your sig-nature....


Lots of things change, even whom was first asked about all this in the very opening line of the ISA post below...:( ; Had to change to .txt file as .html(hyper text/internet pages) isn't a recognized attatchment type

But not the math, nor the consideration of how tight the line is as determinate (IMLHO) to leveraged pressure on the line; for the tightness is what allows the slack for the dip angle (that determines the leveraged load)?

Also, i believe we will find that a horizontal line 50' long pretightened to X #'s with 100# hung in center will have less dip than a line 100# long pretightened to the same X #'s tension witht he same 100# on it. Therefore, to maintain height needs more pretightening, more pressure?


In the Fused Sling Thread ; The crane manuals (i posted links to)quote support angles/math for slings/lines to a load. This is the same math; bent line by so many degrees, anchored at ends; only a crane pulls up, and loaded speedline pulls down; but the same math of pressure on a bent line IMLHO. So, the same reason for not having a loaded super tight/straight horizontal line for speedline is the same reason not to have to flat an angle on supports of speedline, basket loads, straight legged slings loaded, spyder legs, hammer chokers closed etc. in lifting/lowering; the flat angle of the line under load leverages immense forces to the line/anchors. Theoretically approaching infinite in an absoulute flat horizontal line loaded well in the center (if i remeber write).

Thus,...... ever see a sidewards '8'?

This line leveraging (under load), as wee begin to realize it; can also be carried right into using on our side for tightening with Brion Toss's 'sweating in' of a line. For here too, is the same math, placing bend on the straight line leverages it for more tension. Sailors used this for centuries when a capstan winch handle was lost or broke for tightening their lines and lifting. Sweating lines in to remove 'play' is a fantastic, no tool, simple rigging strategy. On a ship, for hauling up a halyard quite a ways; and the work involved, prolly is how the technique earend it's name (plus water squeezes outta line); but on a short service of final tightening for our rigs; it is quite an quick, easy and intense final adjustment IMLHO; perhaps 'sweating in' gives wrong imagery for that..... "Tryyyyyyyyyyyyy it, you'llllllllllllllll like it! - No AlkaSeltzer needed!

Orrrrr something like that!
:alien:



edit; and a safety warning for dropping anything on a taut line between you and any friction on other end of line, let alone anchoring/ support.

Any problem with attatchment, try downloading and dropping the last 4 letters of the file name '.txt' so that the last 4 charachters (that determine file type) are '.htm'.
 
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