Milled electricity poles

[Brmorgan]

I see people have scared you into being within 100 feet of them, but remember that at one point creosote was used as stain on log homes, and I have a book written in the 40s that still advocated such, written by the Montana Forestry Service...

My first suggestion, don't panic. I am not saying your should lick the wood or make chewing mulch out of it, but cut the edges off and keep what is clean on the inside, there is still some great wood in there which doesn't have creosote on it. At least that is what I would do.

There is no doubt that creosote is bad stuff, so I don't want you to think I'm advocating making a crib for a newborn baby, just that you can still cut it off and have some usable lumber. My free $0.02, worth what you paid for it.

Good advice. I don't think creosote is all that bad in its solid form if left alone in/on the wood. It's just a bad idea to ingest the stuff. Heck in a town a few hours' drive from me (Kamloops BC) they're talking of putting in a small powerplant or something like that to burn shredded railroad ties that are all creosote-coated. They shred them down at the old rail station here in town - they're hauled here on trains from all over the province and fed into a huge grinder which spits the end result back into big open boxcars which are hauled away to somewhere else. No idea what they end up doing with the stuff right now though.

As for the Arsenic etc., I didn't mean to scare anyone with that. I have no idea if it is/was used on the other side of the ocean for such things, and I really don't think it was ever put in the phone poles here, just the green treated lumber. Copper II solution is a more common and less hazardous wood preservative now.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I will NOT mill power poles either, as my will to have something to mill, sure as hell isn't strong as my will to NOT get some desease when i'm older! And what about anyone with kids that come over? I'm just NOT willing to take that chance either.

Rob

 

[TraditionalTool]

No idea what they end up doing with the stuff right now though.

Brad,

I think it's one of those things...out of sight, out of mind...maybe they go to Siberia or somewhere? :-/

I almost was dumbfounded by all the asbestos problems in the insulation, when they continued to put it in car brake pads. It wasn't until pretty recent they took it out of them also, but people sitting in traffic on the freeway grinding the pad dust in the air and no worries...

It's hard to figure some of this stuff out, not trying to say at all that we shouldn't worry about it, I'm conscience about this stuff as much as the next guy...but when we get down to it the air we breath has pollutants in it that will kill any lab rat, given enough of it...we don't need the surgeon general to tell us that...:-/

I'm surprised that they do that stuff up where you are in Canada, I thought they were better than the States...???

 

[Brmorgan]

I'm surprised that they do that stuff up where you are in Canada, I thought they were better than the States...???

Heh, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I guess if you consider we have the population of California spread out over a land mass about the size of the USA and Mexico combined, we can afford to pollute a little bit more per person and Mother Nature will keep things a bit cleaner for the most part. Remember, we're home to the Athabasca Tar Sands! BC is much like California - the enviro freaks are mostly down around Vancouver and Victoria, much like San Fran and the surrounding area down south. The interior, especially ranching and logging country up where I'm at, can be disturbingly redneck.

 

[bigbadbob]

Heck in a town a few hours' drive from me (Kamloops BC) they're talking of putting in a small powerplant or something like that to burn shredded railroad ties that are all creosote-coated. They shred them down at the old rail station here in town - they're hauled here on trains from all over the province and fed into a huge grinder which spits the end result back into big open boxcars which are hauled away to somewhere else. No idea what they end up doing with the stuff right now though.

As for the Arsenic etc., I didn't mean to scare anyone with that. I have no idea if it is/was used on the other side of the ocean for such things, and I really don't think it was ever put in the phone poles here, just the green treated lumber. Copper II solution is a more common and less hazardous wood preservative now.

I hate to tell you that rail tie burning generation plant is the hottest topic in town right now!!! Even the non leaf lickers are wanting it banned, me included, who need that crap in the air, we have power and rail line all over find another spot,, like Williams Lake or Vancouver or Victoria!!!

 

[Brmorgan]

Hey, we already have the largest wood-fired biomass power plant in North America here in town! No need for more! I figure with the amount they burn they could probably trickle a bit of that junk in here and there and nobody would notice though (except our one-armed three-legged grandkids, I guess!).

I know that discussion's been all over the news lately. Where are they considering putting it anyway? Not like you guys need that crap when you already have the pulp mill that makes the valley smell like a corpse on a calm day.

 

[bigbadbob]

Hey, we already have the largest wood-fired biomass power plant in North America here in town! No need for more! I figure with the amount they burn they could probably trickle a bit of that junk in here and there and nobody would notice though (except our one-armed three-legged grandkids, I guess!).

I know that discussion's been all over the news lately. Where are they considering putting it anyway? Not like you guys need that crap when you already have the pulp mill that makes the valley smell like a corpse on a calm day.

They want it right by the stinky pulp mill. I figure we have raised enough
stink they may cancel it here, and the big grant the feds gave them.
It's a native investment company from Sask doing it.

 

[Brmorgan]

They want it right by the stinky pulp mill. I figure we have raised enough
stink they may cancel it here, and the big grant the feds gave them.
It's a native investment company from Sask doing it.

That doesn't surprise me in the least. They're getting all the gov't handouts to start/maintain businesses right now. Everyone's timber licenses up here are getting slashed, but the native bands' licenses are getting extended bigtime.

 

[clearance]

That doesn't surprise me in the least. They're getting all the gov't handouts to start/maintain businesses right now. Everyone's timber licenses up here are getting slashed, but the native bands' licenses are getting extended bigtime.

Its our land white man, all 110% of it.............lol.

 

[Brmorgan]

I dunno, I'm just against special treatment for anybody. I don't expect any. We're all Canadians at this point; I'm as native a Canadian as anybody else. Since I've been unemployed there have been training programs come up that EI would pay for me to take, but at the bottom of the ad a lot of them said "This course is open to First Nations persons" or something similar. And these were courses offered through the public university/college. I'd like to see what would happen if somebody said the reverse.

 

[clearance]

Brad, you would enjoy the book "From snowshoes to politics" its by Cyril Shelford, rancher, logger, ww2 vet, politician in WAC Bennets gov. He writes in his book (1987) about the racism in B.C. About how natives couldn't go into bars or most hotels, and were not alowed to vote untill 1960. That was then, treated like sh&T and now leaders trip over each other to kiss thier azz. Its amazing and sad, equality was achieved and surpassed.

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

so why not up in arms over coal burning plants?

Coal tar creosote is the most widely used wood preservative in the world. It is a thick, oily liquid typically amber to black in colour. The American Wood Preservers' Association states that creosote "shall be a distillate derived entirely from tars produced from the carbonization of bituminous coal." Coal tar used for certain applications may be a mixture of coal tar distillate and coal tar. See, AWPA Standards

The prevailing use of creosote to preserve wooden utilities/telephone poles, railroad cross ties, switch ties and bridge timbers from decay. Coal tar products are also used in medicines to treat diseases such as psoriasis, and as animal and bird repellents, insecticides, animal dips, and fungicides. Some over the counter anti-dandruff shampoos contain coal tar solutions.

2005 mortality study of creosote workers found no evidence supporting an increased risk of cancer death, as a result of exposure to creosote. Based on the findings of the largest mortality study to date of workers employed in creosote wood treating plants, there is no evidence that employment at creosote wood-treating plants or exposure to creosote-based preservatives was associated with any significant mortality increase from either site-specific cancers or non-malignant diseases. The study consisted of 2,179 employees at eleven plants in the United States where wood was treated with creosote preservatives. Some workers began work in the 1940s to 1950s. The observation period of the study covered 1979- 2001. The average length of employment was 12.5 years. One third of the study subjects were employed for over 15 years.

The largest health effect of creosote is deaths caused by residential fires.

 

[Banacanin]

Well thats made me feel a bit better about all this so what are you meant to do with the rest other than just let it sit somewhere , and do nothing.?

You can make benches that will hold up to the elements very nicely.

 

[bigbadbob]

You can make benches that will hold up to the elements very nicely.

At the phone co. we were told to always wear your gloves and cover your arms when handling and climbing poles, and not for slivers!!

 

[Banacanin]

At the phone co. we were told to always wear your gloves and cover your arms when handling and climbing poles, and not for slivers!!

You know it is a real shame that they still use something this dangerous yet they are worried about pollution from a chainsaw. Its as if they find something small and insignificant to divert attention from what is really going on

 

[bigbadbob]

You know it is a real shame that they still use something this dangerous yet they are worried about pollution from a chainsaw. Its as if they find something small and insignificant to divert attention from what is really going on

The railway has millions and millions of poles and ties, some of those poles are black with tar and creosote!!!
They want to burn these in my town!!!
We have lots of inversions already, keeps that smog down low.
I would rather that be done somewhere else, the burners tell us its safe in my town, but they are from Sask. , lets move the plant there, or better yet in some polititions home town or headquarters.
Look at what became of the PCB's from transformer oil, I could go on but I think we all know the answers.
It would be nice if they asked the people before they go ahead with these things!! Especially when the govenment is giving them some of our tax dollars to start up!!

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

I think they could be burned safley with the appropriate scrubbers on the burners, It would be the safest way to dispose of them and capture the toxins in a smaller mass that promotes a safer long term disposal solution.

 

[woodsrunner]

Check out this link for info on wood preservatives:

http:www.southernpine.com/pt07.shtml


FWIW here's my 2 cents.

For those of us in the hot, humid southeast US wood preservatives are an absolute must for any wood products used outdoors. The days of rot resistant heart cypress or long leaf yellow pine heartwood are long gone. Wood used outdoors here absolutely will not last more than 2 or 3 years IF it is untreated. So from a resource efficiency point of view wood preservatives make sense. From a longevity point of view (economics) they make sense. Rotten lumber makes a poor bridge or fence or barn or deck. Yes, preservatives have chemical compounds that can be dangerous to your health IF used incorrectly. But they ARE a real necessity.

CCA, ACQ, and Creosote treated lumber, posts, poles and timbers are a valuable tool for wood products used outdoors. They will continue to be.

Having said all that, read information that is available on the web about the appropriate practices and techniques for using these products. Then make an informed decision about how to use these products in a "recycling" situation. I have used lots of "recycled" power poles for barn posts, cowpen poles, and fence posts. I would not recommend sawing them and using them for lumber. Not because of the possible dangers of sawing them however.
Pressure treating does not penetrate the entire pole. It will only penetrate a certain depth into the perimeter or circumference of the pole. So when you saw it for lumber you really don't have a product that is as rot resistant as factory treated lumber. As others have said sawing them may present health risks for the sawyer. Also as another poster said wear gloves, long pants and long sleeves when handling creosote treated materials. The creosote is very caustic and will burn your skin. And one last thing DO NOT burn these in your wood stove ( or anywhere else for that matter). They should be disposed of in a manner consistent with your local regulations on hazardous waste because these treatment materials are all pesticides.

For the OP, DO NOT burn this stuff in any amount in your woodstove. Use them as poles or posts or timbers. I also would not use them in the garden. Arsenic and copper will accumulate in the soil and you cannot remove them. These compounds can be toxic to plants. I have seen copper toxicity on commercial vegetables on several occasions due to over use of copper based fungicides which have accumulated in the soil.

Scott

 

[Old Hilly]

Down here in OZ we have 2 types of Creosote in common use, being "high temprature" which is the common variety and "low temprature" which is much less common now. The "low temp" version was, and still is if my taste buds are still working, used as the base for some of those foul tasting black cough mixtures that were poured down our throats as kids.
There are other chemicals that look a bit like creosote and will do the same job. Some have (had) chemicals added such as the 2% Clordane that went into the stuff we used on power poles down here. Then there were the fungicides and other 'cides that went into the drum, all in the name of keeping a dead tree in the ground longer.
The creosote is not a problem, it's what is or was added to the creosote 30 years ago that is going to bite you really badly today. Our treated poles have an expected service life of about 40 years, some go much older than that. What was acceptable practice all those years ago is now treated as a capital offence (almost) and is totally ilegal but the chemicals are still sitting in the wood, doing their job.
Another thing you might not want to know.....some of those chemicals are stored in the fatty tissues of your body. You absorb them a little at a time, with each exposeure. The big problem is if, for some reason, you either get healthy and go on a weight-loss program or have to resort to using those fat reserves. All those toxins that went into storage over a period of years get taken out much more rapidly and make you really unwell. At least that is what happened to the Pole Inspector who was my Foreman. It was not a pleasant process to watch.

 

[Eddie39]

Well Guys this thread has certainly raised some very interesting debates and discussions that's for sure ,and after reading through this thread i am of the view that .
I will not be using any kindling's made from poles to start a fire.

I will use those planks as shelves in the out house as i was going to have to use preservative anyway ..

And I ll never be milling any preserved poles again ,truth be told felt slightly ill after that one and had a strange metallic sort of taste in my mouth which only disappeared last night very weird ..