Milled the 26' Douglas Fir 8 X 12 beam today

[Ted J]

In part yes - check this out - it's from the same article I quoted above.

Looking firstly at the top line of the lower striped area on the graph, at the base of the tree the water content of green DF reaches a maximum of 21 lbs/cuft, about 1/3 of the way up the trunk the max water content is 14 lbs/cuft and then it increases again and on average it is about 17 lbs/cuft



Sorry it doesn't work like that. Green or standing DF never gets to be 100% MC or densities above 50 lbs/cuft.

From real measurements shown on the graph (bottom line of the solid grey area), the average overdry dry density of the wood is 28lb/cuft.
The average water content is 17lb/cuft, so the max MC is 17/(28+17) x 100% = 38 %MC

The 75% MC referred to in Wood web is not a 75% MC - but 75% of the maximum MC so 75% of 38% = 28.5% MC, even on your chart this show up as a density of 42 lb/cuft.

I think the original post from Brad was that his piece of wood weighed more than 4000 lbs and I think we have established that it's not quite that. Whether its 2300 lb or 1600 lb or somewhere in between I'd go with 2300 lb to be on the safe side.

........................OK, you win Bob?

Can we just say it's damn heavy and Brad can't pick it up by himself?

Ted

 

[Brmorgan]

From what I understand there aren't many softwoods that can reach 100% MC. Subalpine Fir is one that can, and it can get up to 120% or so. Which explains why it's heavy as lead green but feels like balsa wood once dried (and smells like year-old used cat litter no matter what).

If I had to guess, I would say this log would have averaged about 30-40% MC since it had been dead but was also down over the winter - I'm sure the top was wetter under the bark along with any points contacting the ground. 19% is considered "dry" (at least as far as kiln-dried structural wood goes), and 23% is the fiber saturation point. This means that the wood will not continue to shrink as it is dried past 23% MC since at this point the wood's cell cavities are no longer saturated with "free" water which causes them to swell; the remainder is "bound water" that is chemically bound to the wood fibers themselves. More info at wikipedia here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying

What causes casehardening when kilning is drying too hot and too fast to begin with, and then not drying for a long enough period to finish it properly. This causes all the free water to be lost quickly, which results in a rapid shrinking of the wood fibers on the outsides of the piece, but the inside doesn't dry out properly. When you go to cut such a piece down later, the tension created is released quickly, which is why casehardened wood can pinch a tablesaw blade and bind or kick back. The other issue is that the parts of the wood that weren't properly dried in the first place can now dry and shrink further after being worked, resulting in an irregular or warped surface.

 

[Brmorgan]

........................OK, you win Bob?

Can we just say it's damn heavy and Brad can't pick it up by himself?

Ted

No worries now - I can pick up the individual parts by themselves! The beam is a bit of a workout and I certainly wouldn't be taking it anywhere by hand, but I can lift it one end at a time.

 

[TraditionalTool]

No worries now - I can pick up the individual parts by themselves! The beam is a bit of a workout and I certainly wouldn't be taking it anywhere by hand, but I can lift it one end at a time.

Sounds like one of the pieces I cut last week, it was about 3" thick, 15" wide, and 16.5 feet long...I *could* also lift it one end at a time, and slide/leverage it around using a pivot point, but I don't want to be lifting wood like that all the time, and in that case the forklift is your friend.

That is a nice looking log, I went back and looked at it. I always admire the minimal taper in fir, I need to get some more I think. Curious though, how did you get it on the stumps? Looks like you have a ATV in that pic...do you use a tractor or forklift? I personally wouldn't be surprised if that log had weighed in the 3,000 lb. range. Interesting way to get the bark off. I also have a broad hatchet I use for some stuff...

........................OK, you win Bob?

Can we just say it's damn heavy and Brad can't pick it up by himself?

Or can we just say, "I don't want to be lifting pieces like that". It's not a matter if you can or can't, but who wants to?

In fact, I've seen some sawmill beds that do not have the raised cross members, and quite honestly that would be very annoying if one couldn't get forks under the wood.

Here's to machines for lifting logs! (tractor, lift, loader, etc...)

 

[Brmorgan]

Re: getting it on the stumps, since it was already on the trailer at one end, we just kept jacking the other end up with a floor jack and a Jack-All and supporting it until it was on the block at the tail end. Then we just put two jack-alls under the side rails of the trailer and jacked the whole works up onto the other one. It was a bit tedious and I couldn't have done it alone, but we got the job done. When I get the bandmill built, I'll figure out some sort of crane or hoist to move logs, possibly using a living tree nearby. Who knows. I have a lot of stuff to process and re-arrange up there on the top level before I get doing anything that ambitious.

 

[Brmorgan]

Do you know how graders charge for grading material? The last guy that did the grading on the logs in West Virginia was a real PITA, but I guess he had his reasons why the 3 logs needed to be replaced.

The better I understand the grading rules, the better chance I will stand of dealing with the next grader. I'm gonna have to get the rafters graded as well...

Sorry I missed this question somehow; I was re-reading the thread tonight and found it.

If you're getting someone to grade an entire LOG, then you need to find a "Log Scaler". That's an entirely different ticket from lumber grading. I wouldn't mind getting that ticket sometime. I know a little bit of the theory but that's about it.

There could have been many factors in his decision to cull the three logs. Knot size and/or density, grain runout due to crook or taper, rate of growth (number of rings per inch), splits/checks and edgewane as discussed earlier...

As for the apparent discrepancy in the #2 grades, I should ask, what was the species? Hardwood rules are a whole other ball of wax and I know nothing about them. There are also "appearance" grades in softwood beams though, the one I listed was just Structural #2 - it doesn't have to be pretty, just hold things up, since I guess it's assumed it will later be covered and finished over. Hence the edgewane allowance.