Modified saws --> Stock saw comparisons

[IchWarriorMkII]

The benchmark for testing out, and comparing modded saws is always what saw it "runs with" and how far up the displacement ladder you can climb with your modded saws:

For example, Mr. Dudeson's Super Woods port 346xp can now outcut Mr. Stocks stock 361.


Obviously these examples are subjective, chains, wood, and bar lengths all play into the comparisons. Some are more fair than others... some are just down right blatent exaggerations.

What Im wondering, is with the larger saws 70+cc displacement and their modifications. A well modified 460 can start to hunt down 660's or a modified 385 can give the 395 a beat down. But how does this play with longer bars? will the smaller, modified saws still fall short pushing the maximum bar lengths (no replacement for displacement) or do they handle maximum bar lengths as well as their larger conterparts?


For clarification, the max bar length on a 460/385 is 36" so against a 395/660 with 36" bars they are equal in terms of performance?

 

[West Texas]

My 'woods' modified 361's compare favorably with my friends 044 and 046 when running a 20" bar. However, I will never run a longer than 20" bar on either one of my modified 361's as I had them modified for better performance in this hard oak I cut. I was not trying to get a smaller and lighter saw, that would perform equal to a larger and heavier saw. I just wanted the joy of better performance, so I'm very happy with my 'woods' modified saws.

On the other hand, I think some people, have their saws modified in the hopes they will have a saw that cuts as good as a larger and heavier saw. I think some are happy with their results, and others are not.

I think you need to be clear on what you want and expect, when you modify or have a saw modified.

 

[ASETECH]

Performance

I feel that the modded saws really shine with the longer bars. They pull a longer bar better. Less bogging, more chips. With shorter bars on 70cc class saws the difference will be minimal. It also depends how what chain speed ytou want to run. My modded 440 wears a 24 in bar with an 8 pin. In the bigger wood it cuts well. Having my saws modded has helped me keep my chains sharper because the amount of wood I cut is so much more I can't stand to waste time with dull chains. I get way more wood (firewood) cut in less time with modded saws. I haave no comparisons for you. I have a 440 and a 650BB. Both built by Dean. I'm sure there are faster saws out there. I know for a fact that my cut very well and exceed my needs but satisfy what I want in a saw that runs well, gets the job done and I can move on.

 

[Lakeside53]

I think we also need definition of what people think is "longer bar". Out here, a 440 with a 20 or 24 is "short"... 28 is more normal and 32 is long (but not too long).

 

[IchWarriorMkII]

My defination of long bar in context of this discussion is the maximum allowable bar length for the saw.

For example, a 36" bar on a 460


What Im wondering is, would a modded 460 with a 36" bar chase down a 660 (stock) with a 36" bar. Why I ask this question, because it seems like every 'test' of modified to stock saw comparisons, they are sporting bar lengths well under maximum for both. I.E. 460 and 660 both sporting 24" bars, and being compared, usually with the operator claiming the 460 now 'runs with' the 660.

 

[Lakeside53]

Yep.. most are just comparing short bars, and chain speed is the over-riding factor for cut "speed".

 

[Patrick62]

I like to think like this:

If the powerhead can maintain acceptable RPM while under load then running more powerful combination gains nothing. If the chain is more aggresive then it will naturally require more power.

Once the load (size of wood, longer bar) increases, then the more powerful motor has it's place.

I have never run a modified saw, so can't make any wild claims as to power. Aside from opening up a muffler or two my stuff is stock.

-Pat

 

[Timberhauler]

I've got a 440 that I slightly muffler modded and mildly ported...Both wearing 20 inch bars,it is in the hunt with my 650 all day long,I will almost say that it will slightly outpull my 385's.This particular saw gets used by no one in my crew but me and it sucks up,say 80% of what I cut....I haven't had the time to do it,but can't wait to do a little tweaking to my new 441..It already hangs with a stock 460..It should be interesting....I tore apart one of my 395's about a month after I bought them and did a very mild port job on it as well....There is more felt power than what's coming from the other 395,but it won't even begin to cut with my 3120..I would still rather use the 395...That 3120 is just so dammed heavy.

 

[IchWarriorMkII]

I've got a 440 that I slightly muffler modded and mildly ported...Both wearing 20 inch bars,it is in the hunt with my 650 all day long,I will almost say that it will slightly outpull my 385's.This particular saw gets used by no one in my crew but me and it sucks up,say 80% of what I cut....I haven't had the time to do it,but can't wait to do a little tweaking to my new 441..It already hangs with a stock 460..It should be interesting....I tore apart one of my 395's about a month after I bought them and did a very mild port job on it as well....There is more felt power than what's coming from the other 395,but it won't even begin to cut with my 3120..I would still rather use the 395...That 3120 is just so dammed heavy.

So how does your 440 compare to your 650 when the bar sizes go up?

Thats what I'm curious about.

 

[NWCS]

my woods port 036 pro regularly smokes stock 044s. you might ask what the conditions are for that are. heres the setup i did

Stihl 20" ES bar
2 out of the box Carlton 3/8" A1 chains
8T sprockets
16" alder log
fuel out of the same can (40:1 Stihl mix with 92oct prem from the local 76)
both saws tuned for best cutting performance in the log to be cut.

both saws had good compression at test time, well used but the 044 is taken care of a bit better than my 036 (have to push and abuse a design test saw

 

[Stihl Crazy]

I have several woods mod saws. Last fall I took my mod 5100 and my stock 064 to work cutting spruce logs up to 20 inches at the stump. Both saws had 16 in bar and 3/8 chain. Felling and limbing it was hard to feel any performance difference, but it sure was nicer using the 5100 for 8 hours. Switch the wood to large hardwood and 20 plus bars, the 5100 seemed dead in the water compared to the 064.

Small modified saws have their area to shine but I don't consider them to be a 1 saw for everything saw, where a stock larger saw could be. Just my thoughts