MS 361 power?

[JHeckman]

After a bit of research I finally decided to replace my old Pioneer saw , I don't know what model its very old and the paint is all worn off has a push button oiler pump on it . I finally decided on a Still ms 631. Ok well I bought it for a little over 600$. The dealer gave me a free case and extra chain with it. I read the book on it and took the thing out today and tryed to start it. Well I could'nt even get it to fire with the decomp valve on like it says in the book. I finally just just pulled up on the switch to turn the valve off and started it on full comp. It was not very hard to start like that anyway its alot easyer to pull than my pioneer. Anyway so I got it started and cut up around 3 cords of wood with it. I am very disapointed with the power of this thing. I actually got my pioneer out and ripped through a few logs and tryed the 361 side by side and it was a vast difference in speed. My old ars pioneer is way faster on the cut I can bog the 361 with all ease in fact I often had to go easy on it to keep it from sticking. My old pioneer I cant even get it to bog unless I use all my strength. Whats going on here?? I love the weight of this 361 it its light as a feather compared to my pioneer. And my pioneer turns my arms all numb after a few minutes because of the massive vibration. But I really hate wasteing my time cutting wood useing the stihl when I can go faster with my pioneer. Which kinda pisses me off because I just expected to get more saw for 600$ than what it is right now. My question is when this thing gets broke in will it have a significant amount of added power ? I plan on doing the muffler modification to it and see what happends , will there be a very noticable increase in power? Im starting to wonder if I should have bought a bigger saw because right now this thing feels like a toy to cut wood with. Oh by the way the 361 has a 20 inch bar.

 

[keith c raymond]

Im not a Stihl expert or owner but Ive got to say that the 361 that you will read about on this site is a highly rated saw.You will have to look long and hard to find a disapointed owner.Not to be disrespectful,But what kind of chain are you spinning?I take it that its sharp?How large is your Pioneer?If you are not happy with the 361 you might want to consider perhaps a MS 440 or 460.Im sure you will have some more replies to this thread.

 

[460Ted]

Well, I have not used a 361 yet. My friend has a 390 and after trying it, I went with a 460. Every one knows the 361 is a nicer saw than the 390 but peak power is close to one another. That's really why I went with the 460. I heard Stihl has a 7 day exchange policy? Maybe you could talk to your dealer?

Ted

 

[JHeckman]

The chain is the chain that came on it stock im not sure what kind and yes it is sharp . You seem to imply that I am not a owner of a Stihl MS 361. "Ive got to say that the 361 that you will read about on this site is a highly rated saw.You will have to look long and hard to find a disapointed owner." I have attatched a picture of my saw and warranty slip to clear that up if this is the case. I am the owner of this saw!!! And I am very disapointed in the way it cuts for the price. Maybe im just asking to much but I just thought for over 600$ it would cut a bit better. My pioneer im not sure what size it is. Its very old my grandpa gave it to me he said he got it back in the 70s I think. All the paint is worn off so im not sure what model it is. It has massive torque though it will rip the teeth off the chain when it gets a bit worn. They have a 7 day return? Good deal if this is true im going in tommarow to find out.

 

[460Ted]

I'm not sure of a return policy, but I have heard of an exchange policy.

 

[JHeckman]

I left the pioneer in the shed where im cutting wood so I cant inspect it until tommarow. But I found one on Ebay that looks just like it. No paint and all !! maybe someone can help me out and tell me what size it is?

 

[stump doctor]

Well this is not good news. I wonder if it's so restricted due to the new EPA laws. I can imagine your frustration shelling out $600 for a saw that does not perform as well as an old one. Specially since I am about to do the very same thing. Shell out around $600 to replace a 20 year 028AVS. Maybe I best be looking for a few year old version without the restricted muffler and the adjustment screw limiters.

Any way back to your problem. Did you try to adjust your set screws to richen up the fuel mix a bit? It may be worthwhile to buy the tool Stihl sells to get the limiter caps off. You would want to open up that restrictive muffler as well.

If you did not buy the MS361, what other saw is out there in it's power to weight range that would out perform it, both in power and long term durability?

 

[SmithEC]

.... You seem to imply that I am not a owner of a Stihl MS 361. "Ive got to say that the 361 that you will read about on this site is a highly rated saw.You will have to look long and hard to find a disapointed owner." ....

None of it's any of my business, but for the life of me I can't figure out how you (JHeckman) made that stretch.

 

[JHeckman]

I havent adjusted anything on the saw yet. I didnt know they had limiter caps!!! I guess that I should probably do more reading but I would advise to go try out someones saw the same model you are going to buy before you buy one. Anyhow to answer you smith it was the "You will have to look long and hard to find a disapointed owner" part.... I am in fact a disapointed owner. Your probably right and that it was a stretch sorry im a bit irritated with my newly bought 600 some odd dollar investment.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

I think you're likely comparing apples to oranges here. I don't know what model Pioneer that is, but I could pick up my 056 Super, which is 20+ lbs and several years old and say that I can't bog it down when I can my 361. That's not a slight on the 361. The 056 Super takes it on hp and toruqe. Of course it will not bog down as easily as the 361. Does this make the 361 a junker? NO! The 361 is a lighter, smaller saw. It costs $600 because of it's construction, anti-vibe, and reliability. Plus, if you're cutting with the chain that came stock on it, it's likely an RM2, which is a safety chain, which is yet another handicap for the 361. Again, apples to oranges when comparing to the chain on your Pioneer, which I'm sure is not a safety chain. Alot of what you payed for in the 361 is a saw that is easier to carry all day long, easier on your hands and joints and is readily serviceable with modern parts. I just payed almost $500 for a Stihl MS 200T, do you want to compare that to your Pioneer too? Because it'd come up short as well, but it's a climbing saw.

If you don't like the 361 put it up for sale on here, you'll have several offers by the end of the day. And I'd recommend learning how to get the saw to start with the decomp valve. It's there for a reason.

Welcome to AS.

Jeff

 

[xring]

None of it's any of my business, but for the life of me I can't figure out how you (JHeckman) made that stretch.

I looked at his profile. He is still a pup. Impulsive full of vinegar. You remember 20 years ago Young dumb and full *********. Not saying J Hechman is dumb just as impulsive as most guys his age are. ( Those were the days)

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Well this is not good news. ...Specially since I am about to do the very same thing. Shell out around $600 to replace a 20 year 028AVS. Maybe I best be looking for a few year old version without the restricted muffler and the adjustment screw limiters.

Worry not stump doctor. Go with the 361, you won't regret it. Compared to your 028, there'll be no comparison.

Jeff

 

[NorthWoods]

My brother has 2 old Pioneers ("Farmsaw" & "P61") that he bought new around 25-30 years ago. Both good saws that have seen A LOT of use. The P61 is a torque monster, at least a powerful as my 440, but doesn't rev as high. But it is HEAVY.. I would guess at least 22 pounds with a 24" bar. Also sucks up a lot of gas....which is good, because I'm always ready to take a break after running a tank full through it.

To get my 361 to run right, I had to remove the H adjustment limiter (bought the Stihl tool) and give it about another 1/4 turn and about an extra 1/8 turn when the weather is cold. After a small muffler mod, my 361 runs great now. The pick of my collection for all-around use.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

And to answer your question, yes, the saw will come more into it's own after a few tanks of gas and a muffler mod. But it'll still never outcut a hard core torque monster when you put the load on it. If you want that, get a 460 or 660.

Jeff

 

[JHeckman]

Ok I have been doing some reading. My saw does have a safty chain!!! The dealer gave me a new chain which is a non safty chain with the saw (maybe this is why) that I am going to try out this weekend. Thanks for the replys I am going to try and order the limiter remover from stihl and see how this saw cuts after I get the saw broke in and muffler modified with the limiter removed. Honestly even if it does cut great I think that people should know that they have to spend xxx amount of $ after they spend 600 bucks on a saw and work on it just to get it working right. Anyway when I use the saw with the new chain I will report back here and give my results. BTW it seems to me that some people on this forum are brand fanatics. I AM NOT.. To me guys its all about work and my time , and you can say what you want here but in the woods and behind my saws is where I will be the judge of what I like and dislike. And frankly I dont give a SH*T what you think about that.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

To me guys its all about work and my time ...

Yeah, me too. That's why I use Stihl. I'll be the judge of what I like.

And you shouldn't have to spend any extra money on the saw. The dealer gave you the extra chain. (Hopefully an RS) and the muffler mod will be a couple of holes you'll drill in the muffler. (Hopefully while off the saw.) And the removal tool should cost you about $5. Or you could use a sheet metal screw to get it out.

Jeff

 

[stump doctor]

Worry not stump doctor. Go with the 361, you won't regret it. Compared to your 028, there'll be no comparison.

Jeff

Yes I have spent a few hours resarching the MS361 and it gets excellent reviews. I plan on using it as a lighter weight limbing saw and small brush removal saw. If I need more torque, I can always fire up my trusty 044 with the ported muffler which I installed today. I do want to do the mods to the 361 mentioned above so I can get maximum performance out of it!

 

[NorthWoods]

Honestly even if it does cut great I think that people should know that they have to spend xxx amount of $ after they spend 600 bucks on a saw and work on it just to get it working right.

The limiter costs about $5. I did the muffler mods myself. Soooooo, it cost me a whopping extra $1 per saw to get mine running right. I have a total of $507 invested in my 361 (bought new).

 

[WRW]

Just a thought, here. When you cut with the new saw, are you dogging it in? If not, disregard this post.

The newer saws have a relatively narrow power band, especially the smaller saws (less than 70cc, which the 361 definately is). They cut fast, but you can't make 'em cut faster by pushing 'em. Try cutting with the dogs not touching the wood and see if it doesn't self feed a lot faster than if you push it.

 

[TimberPig]

That one looks quite a bit like 3200 one. If it is indeed a 3200, it is a 77cc saw. Despite its age, it will have significantly more torque, hence why you are finding that it can pull harder, and doesn't bog down. You are going to have a hard time matching it with a 59cc saw.
As to what you can do to improve its cutting, it does look like RM2 safety chain on the 361. Switching to a loop of RS, you will notice an increase in the saw's cutting speed. Modding the muffler will give it a noticeable increase in power, but will not be enough if your Pioneer is indeed a 3200, for it match that saw. The advantage of the 361 is that it revs higher, and can turn the chain faster as a result. In order for it to work efficently, as with most other current production chainsaws, you have to use a light touch and allow the high chain speed to allow it to cut, rather than trying to force it through the wood and torque its way through. Try switching to the non- safety chain, which sounds like it is probably RS, but could also be RM. Either will cut faster than RM2, but the RS will cut faster than RM so long as the wood is clean and it is kept sharp. If the saw still doesn't cut fast enough for your needs, then you will have to bite the bullet and pony up more cash to get a larger saw, or you could modify this one, but it still may not meet your desires.
Also, as frustrated as you are that your new saw isn't quite performing as you expected, taking it out on those of us here who are trying to offer advice and help you is not doing any good. I understand that you feel that for $600 it should be exactly how you want it, but sometimes it takes a bit of tuning and adjusting to set it up how you want it. Stay calm, try the suggestions, and see if you can get it performing acceptably.