My aux oiler addition

[BobL]

Since it can't clog, and if it delivers oil just as effectively, then dripping should be the best way. However, in one post you say

" I am disappointed in the new oiler. The oiler delivery point is about is about 4/5 of the way around the nose and the chain seems to just flings most of the oil off. The chain definitely ran hotter than my direct bar groove delivery method."

I ended up attributing this to two factors.

One was, I must have got my bar oils mixed up. I use quality B&C oil in the saw and canola in the Aux Oiler (AO) but must have used canola in the saw and it was all coming off at the nose. As soon as I made sure I was using quality B&C oil in the saw this problem virtually went away. This also demonstrates that in hot milling conditions is not a good idea to use canola in the saw.

The other minor problem was I had the AO delivery point up a bit too high and it was splashing onto the chain - I then moved the delivery tip down to make light contact with the chain. Being brass the tip was worn away in seconds so the oil now just wicks out direct onto the joint between the bar and chain. I also rotated the delivery slightly towards the powerhead, ie from about 2 o'clock to closer to 1 o'clock.

Because most AOs use gravity feed, the flow rate changes as the height/level/head of the oil changes. This effect can be minimised by using short fat AO reservoirs rather than a narrow tall narrow ones. Short fat reservoirs can also be placed lower down nearer the rails which reduce the amount of mass away from the centre of gravity of the mill. This also reduces vibe amplitude so they are flex less and are less likely to break over time.

To further control AO flow while milling I added an AO flow control lever to the mill that connects to the AO. This enables me to control the AO flow especially when milling a large slab so that any significant changes in oil head can be compensated for. My control lever is a 6 speed click style bicycle gear change lever. I typically start a cut on position 3 (1 is off) and about half way down the slab I might move to position 4 and then towards the end of the slab to 5. My way of knowing if I have enough oil flow is to watch for a small oil pool forming on the bar near the nose.

When milling small - average size logs (ie <30") I use the same AO setting all the way through the log.

Too much oil means it will flood the chain and creates a forward spatter back onto the log like this.

 

[mtngun]

If used in milling, the oil will be absorbed in the massive amounts of sawdust generated by the milling process, it's not just being dumped raw onto the ground.

Darned right. And one way or the other, you are going to use some kind of lubricant, and a few drops are going to end up mixed in with the sawdust, whether it is used hydraulic oil or brand new B&C oil. Big deal.

Contrast that to the typical for-profit logging operation, with leaky old equipment that drips oil by the gallon. Not to mention loggers are the world's worst litterbugs, leaving a trail of oil jugs and beer cans. I frequently pick up logger litter while I am out in the woods.

Am I just kidding myself and being a bad steward of the earth's resources?

You are conserving the earth's resources by utilizing old junk oil instead of importing new oil from the Middle East.

CSMing is a low impact way to harvest lumber. We typically only take deadwood. We don't bulldoze roads or set slash fires. We leave nothing behind but sawdust. CSMing is much, much more environmentally responsible than commercial logging. Hold your head up high and be proud that you are a CSMer .

 

[BIG JAKE]

Some well thought out points there Mtngun. Somebody *itchin' about a little bar oil is just plain anal. Use just enough to do the job and it won't hurt anything. Personally, I'd rather buy new oil than screw with used oil based on my own personal experience. If I end up out of a job or tight for money I'll change my opinion out of necessity. Dad tried using used oil for a while and our bars didn't last very long. In the long run(oil was cheap in those days) it wasn't worth it. Today it's probably a different story. With good bar oil my bars seem to never wear out, but then I don't force anything either-just let it chew away at it's own pace. As far oil pumps go with used oil-I have replaced those. Cast aluminum machined housing with a steel pump rod in the middle, so all that metal in used oil is going to eat it(the aluminum)-it's not a comparable animal to hardened differential gears. An oil pump will run you around 70 bucks. So over the long haul you'll come out ahead moneywise using used oil these days-but I'd rather not deal with my saws leaking that crap all over the place while they are in storage because the oil pump is leaking by. If you don't believe me put a new oil pump on your leaking saw and see if it leaks then. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31559 If you have a way of filtering out all the metal it wouldn't be so bad but then again, used oil has alot of nasties in it:http://www.nature.nps.gov/hazardssafety/toxic/oilused.pdf

Personally, I doubt if there'd be any long term effects from breathing used oil mists while milling, but when you add that to all the other crap(carpet outgassing, air pollution, cleaning solutions, on and on-it adds up) your liver has to deal with who knows? It could be the straw that broke the camels back. Lot's of cancer these days. New oil is less hazardous

 

[Andrew96]

CSMing is a low impact way to harvest lumber. We typically only take deadwood. We don't bulldoze roads or set slash fires. We leave nothing behind but sawdust. CSMing is much, much more environmentally responsible than commercial logging. Hold your head up high and be proud that you are a CSMer .

When I'm cutting someones wind blown tree up on their front lawn...this is what I try to explain to them...so I can get asked back. I don't think that would happen if they saw me using black used motor oil in my equipment.

 

[BobL]

It's not the oil in the used oil that is the problem, the heavy metals and carcinogens are also not that much of a risk to the operator. I agree with mtngum that the oil does break down eventually, but the carcinogenic components and heavy metals in used oil do not, and will find their way into water ways and rivers. It's more the principle that if everyone was allowed to dump their used oil in back blocks and back lots we'd eventually poison ourselves. The amount that CSM users would add is small but then again so does every individual that dumps that odd gallon or two every year, but together we make a bit of a mess.

Most people do not realize how closer we came to poisoning ourselves with lead in leaded gasoline in the 1970s. Lead poisoning lowers IQ and an ability to reason. Western society had reached a level of poisoning about half that of where the Romans had gone and they were totally potty by the time their empire crumbled.

 

[lmbeachy]

[

Most people do not realize how closer we came to poisoning ourselves with lead in leaded gasoline in the 1970s. Lead poisoning lowers IQ and an ability to reason. Western society had reached a level of poisoning about half that of where the Romans had gone and they were totally potty by the time their empire crumbled.[/QUOTE]


What was the problem with the Romans, they didn't have leaded gas and all the other things that we blame for our problems.

 

[Fallguy1960]

The pipe they used in there water system was made of lead.

 

[BobL]

The pipe they used in there water system was made of lead.

That was only a very small part of the story. The ROmans were massive miners of copper lead, silver and zinc. Their mines and smelters in Carthage in Spain were so large and uncontrolled so the lead pollution reached reached Greenland and Antarctica. The labs I work in at work detected Roman lead in Antarctic ice cores - we also detected Greek lead pollution.

The lead was mined for the silver but with all this lead left over they made lead pipe for water and lead vessels for storing food and wine. The Romans did not know that wine had to be stored away from air or it would turn into vinegar (acetic acid) so left over wine was either used as vinegar or thrown away. They noticed that wine vinegar that evaporated in lead containers produced a sweet tasting jelly (lead acetate!) which they ate for desert and added to baked goods since sugar from cane was unknown at the time. They then deliberately added lead carbonate to vingered wine to make this jelly. This consumes large amounts of wine which only rich people could afford so in a strange twist of fate it was the rich that went nutty first. Only rich people could also install lead plumbing. Lead compounds were used by rich women for make up and it was also used for medicinal purposes. When Nero fiddled while Rome burned the elite were well on the way to lead poisoning and as mad as hatters (their maddness was from mercury)

 

[gemniii]

When I'm cutting someones wind blown tree up on their front lawn...this is what I try to explain to them...so I can get asked back. I don't think that would happen if they saw me using black used motor oil in my equipment.

What color is the 2-stroke oil you mix for your fuel?
Mine's almost black in the jug.
The pollutant difference between filtered used motor oil and regular (not greeny biodegradable or canola) oil has got to be very minor in the quantities being used.
/edit - if you were really being green you'd use a Ripsaw with a smaller more fuel efficient powerhead, or a portable bandsaw.

 

[BobL]

The pollutant difference between filtered used motor oil and regular (not greeny biodegradable or canola) oil has got to be very minor in the quantities being used.

I have direct experience in measuring Cr and Pb in fresh and used oil and they are MUCH higher (>100x) in used oils.

Do a search for "heavy metals in used oil" and you will get heaps of info.

EG: Even though they are selling something most of the info on this page is close to the truth
http://www.synlube.com/usedoil.htm
"One quart of used oil has enough heavy metals in it to pollute 250,000 gallons of drinking water."

The continuing sad story about used engine oil is that instead of being properly recycled, a lot of it is crudely distilled into heavy fuel oil without removing all the heavy metals, so they are still entering our environment and groundwater via the atmosphere. So, we went to a lot of trouble to get rid of lead from gas and now we are being contaminated by lead from fuel oil.

 

[mtngun]

BobL, your concern for the environment is commendable. :agree2: You sound like you have some expertise with used oil and I seem to remember you mentioned in another thread that you do research for a university ? What exactly is your field, if I may ask ?

However, I stand by my statement that CSM milling (and for that matter, portable bandmilling) is a low impact way to harvest wood, compared to commercial logging practices, which tend to be sloppy and wasteful if not downright atrocious, at least as it is practiced in my country.

Let's consider the economics of bar oil. I paid about $100 for my 36" milling bar. Despite employing used oil whenever it is available (about half the time), I still went through about 2 dozen gallons of store bought bar oil in the past year, at $6 - $8 a gallon, or about $160 for the year at current prices. Clearly there is no economic justification for a fancy bar oil that may help a $100 bar and a $70 pump last slightly longer.

It's funny how much people worry about choosing the best oil for their pet machine. Machinists are the same way. I tell them I use -- gasp ! ! ! -- chainsaw bar oil to lubricate my machine ways, and they carry on like its the end of civilization.

 

[BobL]

BobL, your concern for the environment is commendable. :agree2: You sound like you have some expertise with used oil and I seem to remember you mentioned in another thread that you do research for a university ? What exactly is your field, if I may ask ?

My training is in nuclear physics but most of my research is in trace metal analytical chemistry using isotopes. I have measured all sorts of stuff in all sorts of other stuff, from lead in petrol, to uranium in dust, to zinc in river water, to tellurium in nano-diamonds extracted from exotic bits of meteorites. I measured the concentration of Cr and lead in used engine oil as part of a Masters of Science. I was quite surprised how loaded the used oil was with heavy metals and thought someone had played a trick on me so I collected some more samples and remeasured them.

I agree, CSM is generally overall low impact compared to a lot of other methods of timber recovery. I like my mate Hud's approach - cut down one and plant 5 more!

 

[mtngun]

My training is in nuclear physics but most of my research is in trace metal analytical chemistry using isotopes.

Ah..... that makes sense.

I spent most of my life working in "dirty" industries, and my current career has me working with molten lead every day. A day in the woods running a chainsaw mill seems pretty healthy by comparison.:biggrinbounce2:

I like my mate Hud's approach - cut down one and plant 5 more!

:agree2:

 

[BobL]

Ah..... that makes sense.

I spent most of my life working in "dirty" industries, and my current career has me working with molten lead every day. A day in the woods running a chainsaw mill seems pretty healthy by comparison.:biggrinbounce2:

It may sound odd but I am not that fussed by metallic lead, molten or otherwise or when it is in a fixed state. I'm more worried by it when it is in a bioavailable form. I live in an 90 year old house which is almost certainly smothered in leaded paint - now overpainted with plastic paint. I know the soil in the flower beds immediately alongside the house is contaminated with lead. We cannot raise chickens in our back garden and eat their eggs because so much dieldrin has been used in my area to treat for termite infestation that the soil needs another couple of decades to fully recover. AT this point one might well think about moving but nature is resilient if it's given a chance. We stopped using insecticides and poisons about 20 years ago and we have managed to attract a couple of native frogs to our water feature/pond and we also have small geckos living in the shed which are good signs that things are improving.

 

[BobL]

A day in the woods running a chainsaw mill seems pretty healthy by comparison.

The most dangerous activity involving milling is still the car ride to where you will mill the log. Check out my milling risk assessment on the Milling 101 sticky.

 

[Andrew96]

What color is the 2-stroke oil you mix for your fuel?
Mine's almost black in the jug.
The pollutant difference between filtered used motor oil and regular (not greeny biodegradable or canola) oil has got to be very minor in the quantities being used.
/edit - if you were really being green you'd use a Ripsaw with a smaller more fuel efficient powerhead, or a portable bandsaw.

Where I come from..calling me a greeny is fightin' words.:sword:....I didn't say I was a greeny...my motto is "It's not a sport if you don't burn fossil fuels". Tree huggers play with balls. The do give me trees to cut though. It makes them feel good. I can't expect them to give me more if I used black oil on their lawn. I use Stihl Ultra and it's slightly tinted.

 

[Andrew96]

It's funny how much people worry about choosing the best oil for their pet machine. Machinists are the same way. I tell them I use -- gasp ! ! ! -- chainsaw bar oil to lubricate my machine ways, and they carry on like its the end of civilization.

I see the same things with bikes. They won't do a valve adjustment on time but they go on and on about how many oil changes they did and the 'special oil' they use.

How does the Bar oil hold up on your machine ways? Sounds like a great idea, thick enough. Over time..does it get hard and dry out leaving a mess? I find it hard to clean off my hands when sawing (stays sticky). Is that a problem around your machines?

 

[chuckwood]

where's it coming from?

I was quite surprised how loaded the used oil was with heavy metals and thought someone had played a trick on me so I collected some more samples and remeasured them.

I agree, CSM is generally overall low impact compared to a lot of other methods of timber recovery. I like my mate Hud's approach - cut down one and plant 5 more!

I'm assuming that the heavy metals are coming from the crankshaft and rod bearings and other similar type solid bearings in a motor. If that much metal is being rubbed off the bearings, I'm amazed that motors last as long as they do. Perhaps the next gov't interference project is to mandate that all engines have hard steel roller bearings instead....

 

[mtngun]

How does the Bar oil hold up on your machine ways?

Typical machine way oil is 30 weight mineral oil with tackifiers added so it will cling to the ways. In other words, it's the same thing as bar oil, except they put a different label on the jug and triple the price ! ! !

But, try explaining that on a machinist's forum and you get shot down, just as you get shot down on AS if you confess to lubing your bar with used oil.

BobL makes some good points about the toxic aspects of used motor oil, but at this time there doesn't seem to be a lot of healthy alternatives for disposal. Fuel oil -- creates global warming and the toxins don't go away. Re-refining -- doesn't seem to be available in my area.

The economic argument for using quality bar oil doesn't add up, either. My milling bar cost $100, a pump costs $70. Yet despite using used oil whenver it is available, I still go through about 2 dozen gallons of store bought bar oil a year -- about $170 worth. In other words, I spend more on oil than on bars and pumps.

I consider myself a tree hugger, but the reality is that almost everything we humans do has an impact on the environment. The best we can hope for is to make less of an impact, and I think portable milling accomplishes that.

 

[BobL]

I'm assuming that the heavy metals are coming from the crankshaft and rod bearings and other similar type solid bearings in a motor. If that much metal is being rubbed off the bearings, I'm amazed that motors last as long as they do. Perhaps the next gov't interference project is to mandate that all engines have hard steel roller bearings instead....

Yep it is amazing, but its not just bearings, its piston, rings, cylinders, cam lobes and rockers, valves and valve seats etc. Gears rubbing direct on other gears rub or chip tiny bits of metal off the teeth. It's also not just physical wear. Hot dirty oil containing combustion contaminants also has a small amount of corrosive material which dissolves small amounts of metal. With a sensitive balance it is possible to measure this wear on a single gear or ring quite easily. Just think about how tight the gear box feels on a new car and one that has done 250,000 miles - that gear slop has gone somewhere ie into the oil.