Need Help Stihl 460 clutch?

[SAWZ]

I have a Stihl 460 mag that I broke a clutch shoe removing the clutch to clean behind it.( my logger friend advised "just spin her off with an air gun", "we do it all the time") this was the first mistake I made! I called 8 different Stihl Dealers one being a "master elite" dealer. No luck on clutch or parts to build a clutch. My question is price range from $ 45.00 to $68.00 for the same part all within 15 miles of my home. Nobody stocks them all "special order". Am I crazy or is the 440/460 not popular models ? I also tried to get the Stihl dual port muffler cover part #11281400801 and was told can't sell it to you it is only for Canada and Austrailian saw use. Clutch part # is 11281602001 any advice appreciated. I am certainly dazed and confused with this. Thanks

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Yeah, any dealer that tells you they can't get the dual port is an idiot. Simply put. I've bought five of them in the last couple of months for myself and a couple of guys like you who can't get them. They're very available, it's just your dealer being lazy, stupid or both. And the clutch, well again, my dealer has them, but I don't know how large the dealers are you're dealing with. There's a couple of parts guys who sponsor here, you might ask them if they've got any for you. If not, let me know, and I'll send you a dual port cover, and you can take it and stick it in your dealer's face and tell him where you got it from!

Jeff

 

[Lakeside53]

As Jeff says.. The parts are readily available even if they don't stock them. They can get them for you overnight or a couple of days at most. Do you need an entire clutch, or just the shoe and springs? Are your retainers undamaged? A used clutch (many sources on AS and on EBAY) will cost a lot less... just type in "Stihl 046 clutch" on ebay search

BTW, spinning off with air is the way most take of the clutches - but put it back on with a torque wrench. I've never seen on break on taking off.. If it broke, something else must have been wrong. I assume you know it's left thread?

 

[Grande Dog]

That clutch shoe is a 1128 162 0806 and it should cost you about $8.00

 

[THALL10326]

As Jeff says.. The parts are readily available even if they don't stock them. They can get them for you overnight or a couple of days at most. Do you need an entire clutch, or just the shoe and springs? Are your retainers undamaged? A used clutch (many sources on AS and on EBAY) will cost a lot less... just type in "Stihl 046 clutch" on ebay search

BTW, spinning off with air is the way most take of the clutches - but put it back on with a torque wrench. I've never seen on break on taking off.. If it broke, something else must have been wrong. I assume you know it's left thread?

Lake thats interesting about spinning them off with a air gun. I did see a man do that one time on a MS180 and the beating of the air gun, believe it or not, actually sheered the built in flywheel key on flywheel. He had a tight clutch and apparently the air gun wasn't set high enoguh and the constant hammering of the air gun against the clutch and the jerking againist the crank took out the key in the flywheel. Strange but true. Topping that I helped the guy make new key out of one of those square concrete nails. Had to grind the nail and shape it, file a new square groove in the flywheel and drive the homemade key in it and it worked like a charm. That was 2 years ago and the man still runs that saw all the time. Amazing what you can do with a saw..

 

[046]

you should not make a shear pin out hardened steel. it's suppose to shear for a reason.

 

[THALL10326]

you should not make a shear pin out hardened steel. it's suppose to shear for a reason.

He took the free nail over a new flywheel. He's still using the saw 2 years later so if it's gonna shear it would so by now. It was a money thing of can we fix it cheaper than buying a flywheel. We did.

 

[sugarbush]

He took the free nail over a new flywheel. He's still using the saw 2 years later so if it's gonna shear it would so by now. It was a money thing of can we fix it cheaper than buying a flywheel. We did.

thall, I understand that completly, year's ago I had a repair shop in a indian rez. many customer's coudn't afford the nail let alone a flywheel. lot's of old mac & homelite repair's. I've repaired flywheel's like that many time's. I'm impressed.

 

[THALL10326]

thall, I understand that completly, year's ago I had a repair shop in a indian rez. many customer's coudn't afford the nail let alone a flywheel. lot's of old mac & homelite repair's. I've repaired flywheel's like that many time's. I'm impressed.

Thankya there. I know its not the most by the book thing to do but your right, the man didn't want to fork over the price of a new flywheel. Instead of saying oh well I said well lets see what we can do with it. He was tickled it ran great and still does today. Me, I didn't charge him a penny for my custom made nail job You know come to think of it Sugar I got a old BG75 blower that a man canned because the flywheel came loose and ate up the key. He junked it and bought a new one. I got it in a box out the shed. Time to get back to custom nailing and fix that old thing. Need to find me another square concrete nail round here somewhere

 

[SAWZ]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess all I really need is 1 shoe. The springs and retainers all look good and the clutch itself looks in good shape otherwise. I realize now that the clutch assembly could not take a hit from an Ingersol Rand 231 running > 120psi. I had it lying on itside and got more of the IMPACT than spin I guess. Oh well I always seem to learn from my mistakes. But you know wifes salt in the wound "should have just taken it to the store and got it fixed it would have been cheaper in the long run".

 

[THALL10326]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess all I really need is 1 shoe. The springs and retainers all look good and the clutch itself looks in good shape otherwise. I realize now that the clutch assembly could not take a hit from an Ingersol Rand 231 running > 120psi. I had it lying on itside and got more of the IMPACT than spin I guess. Oh well I always seem to learn from my mistakes. But you know wifes salt in the wound "should have just taken it to the store and got it fixed it would have been cheaper in the long run".

Awwwwwwwwwww what you did was very minor compared to some of the saws I've seen. Had a man run over a 036 pro one time with a 955 Cat dozer. It was flatten like a pancake. He brought it in and asked if I could put it back together. I said put what back together:monkey:

 

[046]

He took the free nail over a new flywheel. He's still using the saw 2 years later so if it's gonna shear it would so by now. It was a money thing of can we fix it cheaper than buying a flywheel. We did.

never said a harden steel pin would not hold up. just that if you find a sheared pin, normally the shaft and flywheel is undamged because pin did it's job and sheared.

when you put a harden pin in place of a soft shear pin. the ability to shear and protect shaft from damage is gone.

 

[THALL10326]

never said a harden steel pin would not hold up. just that if you find a sheared pin, normally the shaft and flywheel is undamged because pin did it's job and sheared.

when you put a harden pin in place of a soft shear pin. the ability to shear and protect shaft from damage is gone.

Your very correct but on saw very rarely does a saw motor take a hard hit like a lawn mower or some other type of spinning object does. Most times on a saw the key sheers when the flywheel gets loose, which is rare too. I see what ya saying though and can't argu with you, you are correct....

 

[Lakeside53]

never said a harden steel pin would not hold up. just that if you find a sheared pin, normally the shaft and flywheel is undamged because pin did it's job and sheared.

when you put a harden pin in place of a soft shear pin. the ability to shear and protect shaft from damage is gone.

guys, guys...

No saw crankshaft uses the woodruff key for shear. If it is steel, it's tool steel and will never shear. The key is only for postion. The MS180 in question does not have a "shear pin" - it has a small cast knob in the aluminum flywheel... just to locate the correct orientation of the flywheel on the shaft. It provides no shear capability for protection or any other function other than locational. The "key" is not even required - just makes it easier to keep the flywheel and crank lined up while tightening.

Yes, I've seen quite a few weed eater and blower flywheels that have been spun by their own forces, never mind with air-tools. I put them back on carefully, torque down correctly, and they are still working fine today. And watch out - the 361 also has a cast-in-place aluminum "key".

Use of air tools has been much discussed in the past. The bottom line is simple - you don't use a 3 foot breaker bar on a small nut, so why use a 250ft/lb impact wrench on a small clutch. If you do, then anything can happen. I use air tools for clutch and flywheel removal all the time, but with care - we have two impact wrenches - a large one for the likes of 056's, TS760 etc, and a small one for pretty much everything smaller. The tool MOST used is a Makita 12 volt impact wrench that is very controllable and gets used on all the small units and almost all fasteners as well.

 

[Lakeside53]

you should not make a shear pin out hardened steel. it's suppose to shear for a reason.

It's not a shear pin, but I think I aready answerd that in the previous post.

 

[Lakeside53]

Lake thats interesting about spinning them off with a air gun. I did see a man do that one time on a MS180 and the beating of the air gun, believe it or not, actually sheered the built in flywheel key on flywheel. He had a tight clutch and apparently the air gun wasn't set high enoguh and the constant hammering of the air gun against the clutch and the jerking againist the crank took out the key in the flywheel. Strange but true. Topping that I helped the guy make new key out of one of those square concrete nails. Had to grind the nail and shape it, file a new square groove in the flywheel and drive the homemade key in it and it worked like a charm. That was 2 years ago and the man still runs that saw all the time. Amazing what you can do with a saw..

Pity you went to all the effort - the key is not required at all if you can hold the postion while tightening the nut... Best way is just degrease the shaft and flywheel, hold in postion, set it with one gentle tap of a hammer (the flywheel, not the crank) and then just tighten to the specified torgue. I'm sure I posted a reference to this a couple of months back...

Here it is :

 

[THALL10326]

Pity you went to all the effort - the key is not required at all if you can hold the postion while tightening the nut... Best way is just degrease the shaft and flywheel, hold in postion, set it with one gentle tap of a hammer (the flywheel, not the crank) and then just tighten to the specified torgue. I'm sure I posted a reference to this a couple of months back...

Couldn't agree with ya more Lake but that ole boy spun the crank all the way around the flywheel. I don't know what he used as air gun but there was no key to be found in the wheel. It look like it had been melted so there was no way to hold that thing in line with the groove in the crank. I merely got me a small square file and filed out where the built in key use to be, it did leave a imprint of where it was drove a ole nail(custom made) in the slot and tightened her down on the crank and away she went. Whole process took about 15 minutes so was no biggie to me. I know what ya saying about the key is only a lineup item and not really needed after tightening down but this was no such sucker, she was completely slicked out, nothing left to hold the crank still enough to even tighten it. She ran great and still does so all is well. Ole boy down at Briggs told me once you tighten down one of their big flywheels you can take the tap back off and toss it. That did surprize me abit.....

 

[Lakeside53]

I don't know what he used as air gun but there was no key to be found in the wheel. It look like it had been melted so there was no way to hold that thing in line with the groove in the crank

See the page I just posted above (sorry, I was fussing with it while you were answering) - it's is a tapered interference fit, so one tap with the hammer and the flywheel is seated quite firmly - then just tighten. You don't even need the nut once torqued down, but I don't take it that far...

 

[sugarbush]

See the page I just posted above (sorry, I was fussing with it while you were answering) - it's is a tapered interference fit, so one tap with the hammer and the flywheel is seated quite firmly - then just tighten. You don't even need the nut once torqued down, but I don't take it that far...

Thall, what's the matter with you, didn't you now you don't need that key? next time line -er up, give-er a tap with a hammer, (use a deep socket to go over the shaft) put in press and apply 212 lb. pressure, should be good to go. I love these informative discussions. (p.s. the press is much less to damage anything then an air hammer.)

 

[THALL10326]

Thall, what's the matter with you, didn't you now you don't need that key? next time line -er up, give-er a tap with a hammer, (use a deep socket to go over the shaft) put in press and apply 212 lb. pressure, should be good to go. I love these informative discussions. (p.s. the press is much less to damage anything then an air hammer.)

hahaha, good one there Sugar. Something tells me your stirring the pot you old troublemaker