Need help with new to me MS660 hole in case half oil gallery next to pump

[trains]

Hi chaps,
After many years of looking I came across a stihl 660, piston still had some machine marks left on it, but not pristine, was an arborists saw, so it has some hours on it, and needed considerable maintenance, saw ran, tached it at 13400, and it idled ok at 2500 for being unused for a while, when running, there was oil leaking out of the clutch side, and as best as I could see, looked like it was coming from the flat O ring where the pump delivery meets the case half.
Deal was made for 500 and it came home.
Got to looking at it, and found why its not oiling the bar, apart from the oil drive gear arm broken at the tip, there is a hole that has been punched thru into the oil gallery in the case half right next to where the supply O ring is, see picture.

Open to suggestions of how to best fix this so I can use it, would yamabond do, or some selleys metal epoxy after a good clean with solvent, and then another good clean in solvent, followed by another good clean in solvent.
You get the idea.
We dont have jb weld here, so not sure what the equivalent here is this side of the pond.

No one around here does tig, and there is not much material to work with there anyway.
I knew there would be some things to fix, but this one caught me as the hole was covered in dirt/dust etc and oil appeared to be leaking from the oil pump, not to its side, well I was wrong .

ahh the joy of finally getting a larger saw has faded somewhat with the prospect of this being a larger problem than I had expected.
Would really appreciate the advice of those who have fixed magnesium before on how to best tackle this.

Cheers

T

 

[Yukon Stihl]

Hi
I would JB weld it and look for a new set of cases.

 

[L34]

Is there enough room to drill and tap it and fit a grubscrew with loctite?

 

[pioneerguy600]

Was this saw cutting palm trees? That is some serious corrosion there, the rest of that area looks like its getting very thin.

 

[trains]

Hi L34, not sure about that, I think the material around it is too thin, and the drum and clutch will be close to it, and I dont want to block the oil gallery either.

T

 

[trains]

Was this saw cutting palm trees? That is some serious corrosion there, the rest of that area looks like its getting very thin.

Yeah, I wondered about that too, however I also thought he must have been cutting lots of dirty stumps down low, as the clutch cover is pretty beat up, not so much with pitting, but just plain erosion from what I assume is dirt and stones, part of it is broken away, snapped chains can do some pretty nasty things too.
Would have walked If I saw this amount of damage when inspecting it, but didnt bring any rope to use as a piston stop, and the rest of the saw is not eroded like that, the base of it looks pretty good.
Peering thru past the clutch with a strong torch only showed usual sawdust buildup caked in oil, as per usual around the clutch area, could see oil seeping from next to the oil pump, just naturally thought/ assumed it to be the O ring there, wasnt expecting to find it abraded so thin and a hole.
At least the pitting will allow a good bond with JB weld hehe.

Should I heat the area with a hair dryer to try and get any more oil out of it, or is several cleanings with solvent ok before trying.
searched ebay for jb weld and you can get it in AU
Local parts stores look at you like your from another planet if you ask for that or three bond .................

T
edited for typos, too tired to type ropely

 

[trains]

So beyond JB weld, any suggestions.
If I go the JB weld, the 2 small tubes, red and black is what to use ? or is there a specific JB weld I should be asking for ?

thanks for the help chaps.

T

 

[Yukon Stihl]

Regular JB Weld should do,2 small tubes red and black.You can get it with metal in it,not sure that you would need it.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Hi chaps,
After many years of looking I came across a stihl 660, piston still had some machine marks left on it, but not pristine, was an arborists saw, so it has some hours on it, and needed considerable maintenance, saw ran, tached it at 13400, and it idled ok at 2500 for being unused for a while, when running, there was oil leaking out of the clutch side, and as best as I could see, looked like it was coming from the flat O ring where the pump delivery meets the case half.
Deal was made for 500 and it came home.
Got to looking at it, and found why its not oiling the bar, apart from the oil drive gear arm broken at the tip, there is a hole that has been punched thru into the oil gallery in the case half right next to where the supply O ring is, see picture.

Open to suggestions of how to best fix this so I can use it, would yamabond do, or some selleys metal epoxy after a good clean with solvent, and then another good clean in solvent, followed by another good clean in solvent.
You get the idea.
We dont have jb weld here, so not sure what the equivalent here is this side of the pond.

No one around here does tig, and there is not much material to work with there anyway.
I knew there would be some things to fix, but this one caught me as the hole was covered in dirt/dust etc and oil appeared to be leaking from the oil pump, not to its side, well I was wrong .

ahh the joy of finally getting a larger saw has faded somewhat with the prospect of this being a larger problem than I had expected.
Would really appreciate the advice of those who have fixed magnesium before on how to best tackle this.

Cheers

T

I have fixed a good many chainsaw chassis with Devcon Aluminum epoxy but JB is good as well. One thing though, magnesium is very porous and is full of oil in those pores. If at all possible I glass bead all around the area I want to cover with epoxy, get rid of as much oil as possible and yes heat helps expel oil out of the pores, lots of acetone over and over. Get it dry and use a tiny bit of two part stick dough to plug the hole,then cover it with slow cure epoxy. Have fixed many oil tanks where holes have been punched through usually from too long of screws being used to hold spikes/dawgs to a tank. Will check back again tonight.

 

[trains]

I have fixed a good many chainsaw chassis with Devcon Aluminum epoxy but JB is good as well. One thing though, magnesium is very porous and is full of oil in those pores. If at all possible I glass bead all around the area I want to cover with epoxy, get rid of as much oil as possible and yes heat helps expel oil out of the pores, lots of acetone over and over. Get it dry and use a tiny bit of two part stick dough to plug the hole,then cover it with slow cure epoxy. Have fixed many oil tanks where holes have been punched through usually from too long of screws being used to hold spikes/dawgs to a tank. Will check back again tonight.

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated, I have been using shellite or solvent 143 to clean the area with a tooth brush, and some air, but was wondering about using Acetone on mag case material, will give it some more washing with acetone, and put it in the sun to bake.
What is the two part stick dough, I am not familiar with the name, was thinking of trying to use some thin tube, or clothes line wire into the oiler gallery to stop the jb running. I like the idea of a dough better, I assume its easily broken up afterwards and no harm to the bar chain etc.
Thanks again chaps, will take pictures and update the thread as the repair progresses in the days to come, off to bed now.

T

 

[Tin-knocker]

I had the same thing on an 041 I bought off this site and I was very disappointed to find it leaking oil all over the place when I put bar oil in it! Upon inspection I found these holes. The three on the right were leaking oil but I wanted to try to stop any more corrosion so I went a little over kill on the epoxy. I used Devcon aluminum patch and aluminum window screen repair patches to fix it and it's been working great!
I spent a few hours cleaning it extremely well with rubbing alcohol before applying the devcon. Once I put a light application of the epoxy I pushed the screen into it to act as support for the giant holes. Then feathered in more epoxy over the edge of the screen. Once that dried I put a total of three more applications of epoxy over the holes and that was it. I don't have a picture of the finished product sorry! My phone ran out of storage space .
Fired it up the next morning and cleared a bunch of Doug fir that was dropped on a trail and did not leak one drop of bar oil. Very happy with the fix. It's definitely not going to win any awards for looks but I just wanted it working!

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated, I have been using shellite or solvent 143 to clean the area with a tooth brush, and some air, but was wondering about using Acetone on mag case material, will give it some more washing with acetone, and put it in the sun to bake.
What is the two part stick dough, I am not familiar with the name, was thinking of trying to use some thin tube, or clothes line wire into the oiler gallery to stop the jb running. I like the idea of a dough better, I assume its easily broken up afterwards and no harm to the bar chain etc.
Thanks again chaps, will take pictures and update the thread as the repair progresses in the days to come, off to bed now.

T

Dough is just a name we use around the shop between us mechanics, the real name is epoxy putty stick and one cuts a piece off the stick/roll ,then kneads it between the fingers until the color changes. It will stick like JB Weld and fills holes very nicely, then cap over it with JB Weld , check out the link below for the type I use but there are many others out there.

https://www.amazon.ca/Star-Brite-Ep...F8&qid=1521669087&sr=8-5&keywords=epoxy+stick

 

[trains]

Dough is just a name we use around the shop between us mechanics, the real name is epoxy putty stick and one cuts a piece off the stick/roll ,then kneads it between the fingers until the color changes. It will stick like JB Weld and fills holes very nicely, then cap over it with JB Weld , check out the link below for the type I use but there are many others out there.

https://www.amazon.ca/Star-Brite-Ep...F8&qid=1521669087&sr=8-5&keywords=epoxy+stick

Ahh, thanks for the clarification Pioneerguy600, much appreciated.
I thought you meant to plug inside the gallery, so it would not seep in, I see now what you were referring to by overfilling the hole, to stop the JB from seeping into the gallery.

I have tested some plastic clothes line wire, and it fits almost perfectly inside the gallery, was hoping it would stop the JB weld from running into the gallery.
I have not used JB weld before, so its all new as to how runny it is etc.
I have used the epoxy putty stick, and it was my first thought as to how to repair this, but all searches showed JB to be a more effective fix, and I thought it wise to ask here as to the best way forward and use the expertise and experience of those who have seen and done this before.
Have the saw out in the sun, and have given it several good cleans with acetone this morning, will leave it to sweat in the sun, and dose it after lunch, then do the same in the evening.
Hopefully the JB arrives tomorrow, I ordered some yesterday, expecting it to be here today, but not so, maybe tomorrow, gives more time to clean it

Thanks for the suggestions, and pictures, keep them coming, its giving me hope that I might be able to repair it back to working order.

Years ago, I did use some 2 part epoxy and some coins shaped to fit, to repair an ally inlet manifold on a 253 holden where it had corroded thru. Continued to work for a few years before I lost track of it.

Oh for metal epoxy back then
Ps, was just to help out a broke friend at the time.

T

 

[trains]

I had the same thing on an 041 I bought off this site and I was very disappointed to find it leaking oil all over the place when I put bar oil in it! Upon inspection I found these holes. View attachment 641043 The three on the right were leaking oil but I wanted to try to stop any more corrosion so I went a little over kill on the epoxy. I used Devcon aluminum patch and aluminum window screen repair patches to fix it and it's been working great!
I spent a few hours cleaning it extremely well with rubbing alcohol before applying the devcon. Once I put a light application of the epoxy I pushed the screen into it to act as support for the giant holes. Then feathered in more epoxy over the edge of the screen. View attachment 641044 Once that dried I put a total of three more applications of epoxy over the holes and that was it. I don't have a picture of the finished product sorry! My phone ran out of storage space .
Fired it up the next morning and cleared a bunch of Doug fir that was dropped on a trail and did not leak one drop of bar oil. Very happy with the fix. It's definitely not going to win any awards for looks but I just wanted it working!

Hi Tin-knocker,
Great reply, really like the pictures, how long ago was that repair done, and I assume its still going strong ?
I have some more hope that I can get this working, and that I didnt waste my money on an expensive learning experience. hehe

T

 

[pioneerguy600]

JB Weld is fairly runny, it will seep down into a 1/16 dia hole easily, hence why I plug small to fairly large dia holes first, the two part epoxy will fix the hole in the tank on its own but for the buildup of the corroded and missing metal the more liquid JB Weld is the better product. If the base metal is clean and oil free the JB Weld will do a good job. I just completed a big repair on a 025 where most of the underside behind the flywheel had been sheard plus melted away from a broken clutch spring that had cut deep enough to partially wear through the oil pump body and left the oil passage to the bar wide open. Saw has been back in use for more than a month now with no leaks.

 

[Tin-knocker]

Hi Tin-knocker,
Great reply, really like the pictures, how long ago was that repair done, and I assume its still going strong ?
I have some more hope that I can get this working, and that I didnt waste my money on an expensive learning experience. hehe

T

It's been about 2 weeks since I did the repair and so far it's still good. I never had luck with jb weld but the devcon stuff worked pretty good. It wasn't runny so it didn't seep down any holes and it dried very quickly so I wasn't wasting a lot of time waiting for it to cure. These were what I used. (Don't mind the Cuties sticker on the Devcon my kids are funny like that) It doesn't look like that hole is big enough to need the screen. Just make sure to clean it really well no matter what product you use. I wasn't exaggerating when I said I spent a few hours cleaning it. I was really scrubbing and used a wire brush to get some paint off then a toothbrush with rubbing alcohol and a hair dryer to evaporate all the alcohol faster. I also sanded the epoxy before adding another layer to make sure it stuck.

 

[Deleted member 149229]

As @pioneerguy600 stated, make sure it’s clean and free of as much oil as possible for maximum adhesion. Acetone is probably your best choice, try your best to prevent any from getting inside.

 

[Tin-knocker]

I went out and took some pics right now. Definitely no leaks! Bar oil is full and no signs of dripping. I wish I would've taken some before I put it all back together.

 

[trains]

JB Weld is fairly runny, it will seep down into a 1/16 dia hole easily, hence why I plug small to fairly large dia holes first, the two part epoxy will fix the hole in the tank on its own but for the buildup of the corroded and missing metal the more liquid JB Weld is the better product. If the base metal is clean and oil free the JB Weld will do a good job. I just completed a big repair on a 025 where most of the underside behind the flywheel had been sheard plus melted away from a broken clutch spring that had cut deep enough to partially wear through the oil pump body and left the oil passage to the bar wide open. Saw has been back in use for more than a month now with no leaks.

Thanks Pioneerguy600, that makes the path forward a bit easier knowing this, and what to expect.

At one point I was considering how LA-CO heat seal stik epoxy sealer would go, I have some in the tool box from my mechanic days its ok for refrigerant fix's on evaps and condensors, but mostly pin sized holes, or a leaking braze join repair, not a larger hole.
Wasnt too sure how it would cope with the heat of an engine, and using a mapp torch to heat the area would most likely bring out even more oil, and result in a poor bond, thus the selleys knead it or JB weld.

T

 

[trains]

I went out and took some pics right now. Definitely no leaks! Bar oil is full and no signs of dripping. I wish I would've taken some before I put it all back together.View attachment 641173View attachment 641174View attachment 641176

Hi Tin-knocker,
Great pics, very interesting to see the mottled cracked appearance on some of the repair, was that just how it was finished, or has that happened since application, possible movement from the previous layer affecting the one above, as you mentioned 3 layers to bring it up from the mesh matrix repair, either way, Thank you for posting, and showing how its going, great stuff.

T