New C.A. here

[frashdog]

Passed with 85%, 1st time. My buddy got a 86% Before I start to sound poopy, I am happy I went through with it and I will maintain my cert but.....

I really was not impressed with the test/experience. I'm not saying it was too easy or it was not applicable. I have a 4yr env.science degree so the biology, soils and other science stuff was a walk.

Biggest complaint was I was not told what I missed, how can one learn from that? I really wanted to know what I missed. My bud who took the test aswell and I sat down right after the test and went through the book to see if we could figure out what we might have missed, incase we were going to retake.

Tree ID: I learned to identify 70 something trees and got tested on 10. I was shocked, 9 were very common, took me about 45 seconds for the tree ID section at the end of the test. I would have felt better about it had I been tested on all 70.

I noticed how little the test touched on climbing, saw handling, rigging and "other" aspects of tree work that could cause some liability issues with ISA if some one were to feel certified to do something out of their scope of skills and get hurt, "but I learned it from this book". That said get rid of that stuff from the test. One question was how to hook up a chipper, does an "arborist" really need to be certified on that??

How about testing on just the science of arborculture: ID, tree selection, phc, pruning, tree asessment, site evaluation, cabling, bracing, ect..

Not climbing or rigging, seperate test.

Not truck, chipper, other equipment, and traffic control, another test for tree workers.

Seems like they could make even more money if they made an straight up cert for (in this order) "tree worker","arborist", "climbing arborist" so on.

Anyways, like I said I'm happy I went through with it.

BTW I am starting my own cert program. I'm not going to limit my self to the world thought it will be called the Intergalactic Federation of Arborists!!Whats the ISA going to do when we make contact with other worlds??

 

[treeseer]

Congratulations for taking this step, and for realizing that there are many other steps to be taken, each in his own direction. You say get rid of the climbing stuff; others say put in more of it.

I agree the test should include more science, but for many's perceived needs there is more than enough already.

CA is not perfect, no compromises are, but it's a lot better than nothing.

 

[RedlineIt]

frashdog,

First, Congrats.

But:

Seems like they could make even more money if they made an straight up cert for (in this order) "tree worker","arborist", "climbing arborist" so on.

Isn't this what the ISA already does?

You take your ISA Certified Arborist exam, then your ISA Tree Worker/Climber Specialist exam, (or the other way around) and when you've got them both, you're an ISA Certified climbing arborist.

It would be very unlike the ISA to leave a dollar lying around uncollected.

Biggest complaint was I was not told what I missed, how can one learn from that?

Agreed. They even tell you in the pre-testing preparation mailouts that you won't be able to find out. This is because the ISA does not grade the exams themselves, they're mailed off to one of those "Bubble Sheet" multi-choice exam services who do the marking and grading, because it is the most cost effective testing method available. What you want from the ISA is not necessarily what's best for the ISA. Get used to it.

One question was how to hook up a chipper, does an "arborist" really need to be certified on that??

That one wasn't on my test.

I hope the possible answers were:

A) Read the operators manual.

B) Read the operators manual.

C) Read the operators manual.

D) All of the above.

How about testing on just the science of arborculture: ID, tree selection, phc, pruning, tree asessment, site evaluation, cabling, bracing, ect..

Not climbing or rigging, seperate test.

(sp)

Here, I disagree. While there are plenty of arborist careers that will never involve getting off the ground, almost all of them will require at least some slim and basic knowledge of how the actual work gets done and the regulations that govern the performance of that work. I think that is pretty basic.

An exception might be a nursery specialist, but that's a separate trade with it's own apprenticeship.


My beef would be that the ISA Certified tree worker/climber specialist designation carries absolutely no weight whatsoever with anyone involved in our industry. None.

What's the point of a certification no one respects?


RedlineIt

 

[treeseer]

My beef would be that the ISA Certified tree worker/climber specialist designation carries absolutely no weight whatsoever with anyone involved in our industry. None.

How do you know this?

CTW is still pretty new; even CA carried little weight at first. Now it carries more than it can support, imo.

 

[frashdog]

But:
Quote:
Seems like they could make even more money if they made an straight up cert for (in this order) "tree worker","arborist", "climbing arborist" so on.

Isn't this what the ISA already does?

When I say "tree worker", I mean a new ground guy should study the guide to know how they should do everything required bythem in a safe and effecient manner based on industry standards. Where to stand, where not to, how to cut on the ground, how to operate and hook up the chipper, traffic control, ground rigging control etc... no climbing, no ID, just the basic skills needed to be safe and useful around an operation.

A "certified arborist" should be more the sciences of practicing arborculture.

And how about a "certified climber" which gets into the technical nature of climbing and rigging with a hands on demonstraition of skills to pass the test. You could also be a "certified climbing arborist".

Quote:
One question was how to hook up a chipper, does an "arborist" really need to be certified on that??

That one wasn't on my test.

I hope the possible answers were:

A) Read the operators manual.

B) Read the operators manual.

C) Read the operators manual.

D) All of the above.

the answer was: cross the chains under the tongue

Quote:
How about testing on just the science of arborculture: ID, tree selection, phc, pruning, tree asessment, site evaluation, cabling, bracing, ect..

Not climbing or rigging, seperate test.

(sp)

Here, I disagree. While there are plenty of arborist careers that will never involve getting off the ground, almost all of them will require at least some slim and basic knowledge of how the actual work gets done and the regulations that govern the performance of that work. I think that is pretty basic.

The basic tree worker step 1: learns what goes on and how to work safe

 

[Dadatwins]

Congrats Frash on earning your CA. It is a basic starting point in this business but at least it is a starting point.

 

[RedlineIt]

treeseer,

Originally Posted by RedlineIt
My beef would be that the ISA Certified tree worker/climber specialist designation carries absolutely no weight whatsoever with anyone involved in our industry. None.

How do you know this?

Personal experience.

Check through the websites of Vancouver, Victoria, New Westminster, Burnaby, Oak Bay, Saanich, Esquimalt, Surrey, North Van, Central Saanich, View Royal, Delta, Nanaimo, all in my bailiwick in British Columbia.

All have bylaws that say that all cutting will be done by an ISA Arborist.

The ISA has done a good sales job in this respect.

So, if you're frashdog, who is an ISA Arborist and a BSc., but thinks ropes and all that climbing and rigging nonsense should be on a separate test, (which it already is) you can get to climb and do the job.

An ISA Certified climber cannot.

CTW is still pretty new

Define "pretty". A five year old chipper is still "pretty new", a five year old eye-to-eye split-tail is likely not.

CTW is about five years old. Is that "pretty new"? No excuses now, how has it been promoted in all that time?



Redlinet

 

[RedlineIt]

treeseer,

my point is right here in this topic thread:

When I say "tree worker", I mean a new ground guy should study the guide to know how they should do everything required bythem in a safe and effecient manner based on industry standards. Where to stand, where not to, how to cut on the ground, how to operate and hook up the chipper, traffic control, ground rigging control etc... no climbing, no ID, just the basic skills needed to be safe and useful around an operation.

So, here is a newly minted ISA arborist who is plainly and painfully unaware of the existence of the CTW and what it entails.

You tell me how the ISA produces an Arborist who doesn't even know the ISA has another category of certification.

Then tell me that anyone else knows. Or recognizes it.


RedlineIt

 

[DonnyO]

congrats f-dog!

to the haters...don't hate the playa....:greenchainsaw:

 

[frashdog]

Hey folks thanks for the congrats!

Still getting used to telling people I'm a "certified" arborist.

Yea, I could complain, critique, whine (I call it continous improvement) about anything, but for real anyone thinking about it and not sure...DO IT, you'll get instant street cred in some situations.

 

[clearance]

Hey folks thanks for the congrats!

Still getting used to telling people I'm a "certified" arborist.

Yea, I could complain, critique, whine (I call it continous improvement) about anything, but for real anyone thinking about it and not sure...DO IT, you'll get instant street cred in some situations.

Good for you. Instant street cred, that is what the rappers strive for, portraying themsleves as genuine bad boys and so on. Instant nothing for me, when I hear the "I am a cerified arborist" line, I think "here we go....' Anyways, have fun, enjoy and learn.

 

[Shaun Bowler]

To get "Street Cred" you should be a climber at the very least.
When I first took the CA test in CA in 1982 you had to be vetted by 2 other CA's.
Being a "climber" was a prerecqusite.
Our office manager-57 year old women, took the CA test and passed 2 years ago in Carmichle, CA.
She is a CA, never chipped a branch,or put a cone on the road.
The ISA program has become an extension of WC/Insurance companies.
I am sure that the people we pay our dues to have become another extension/windfall of corparate.
As professionals we need to address the direction this organization is creating the foundation we stand on.
Take a look at the new "specalities" on the ISA web site.
We need to regain the direction this Corparation is driving our Profession, and this web site.

 

[frashdog]

Good for you. Instant street cred, that is what the rappers strive for, portraying themsleves as genuine bad boys and so on. Instant nothing for me, when I hear the "I am a cerified arborist" line, I think "here we go....' Anyways, have fun, enjoy and learn.

Hey, I have been against the CA thing forever. Still am not so impressed, but again I am happy I went through with it.

When I say instant street cred in SOME situations, I'm reffering to dealing with municipalities and commercial contracts where they know what it is and or require it. That is the main reason I obtained it. Not to sound cool. So uhhh yea, go pee in some one elses cereal bowl homes.

Very curious clearance, what do you tell people you do for a living. What's your title?

 

[frashdog]

To get "Street Cred" you should be a climber at the very least.

How do I explain for "instant street cred",the fact that I've been climbing for 15 years, with a strong back ground in rock and ice climbing..Working with chainsaws and trees for 20 years.. Own/live on/manage 90acre hard wood forest. I'll go into it if people ask, but it is so much easier to say certified. I used to tell people I am an arborist, some would ask if I was certified.

I meet people in other lines of work who have these titles preceded by "licensed", "certified", "registered" never once did it do anything but make them appear to be more qualified and/or skilled to me.

 

[S Mc]

Frashdog, congratulations on achieving your CA. As Treeseer said, it is a good start.

Nowhere is any system perfect, there are always aspects that can be improved upon. If there is something you feel strongly about, put the idea out there.

I am of the firm conviction that you only get out of something what you put into it. So it is all up to you.

(I thought it interesting that one person criticised the ISA for taking all our money, and then criticised the ISA for trying to save money...)

Certification to me was huge. (BTW, I passed with 93% first time out.) It has enhanced our business tremendously. But I am part of a team. David (my husband) is a high climber specialist with 40 years experience, and I will say, second to none in his skills. I have worked with him for 24 years, but I don't begin to tell people that I am a "climber".

Shaun B, Your office manager may not have ever worked out in the field, but I bet the knowledge gained by taking the test has made her a better part of your team and able to answer questions better.

What the CA exam also did for me was that it inspired me to broaden my knowledge base. So I am studying for the BCMA. Some have even criticised that credential. All I can say to that is with the time, energy and expense I am putting into gaining the knowledge base I need to pass it, I will MAKE it a viable title. But again, that's up to me, isn't it?

Sylvia