So I am very familiar with sharpening knives. I've done it for a long time and I'm good at it. Point being I have a good concept but I realize sharpening saw chains is different. I'm relatively new to it, so I'm in the process of seeking instruction. Several times I have heard people say (now I know this is going to be subjective) that brand new chains are not as good until they have been filed for at least a couple of times. Why might this be? I'm open to hearing opinions but is there an objective reason more than one person has said this? I am pretty confident the people I heard this from are very experienced.
New chain vs sharpened.
- Thread starter Doug M
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The cutters on new chain are angled outward into the wood. As the cutters become shorter, they cut a narrower kerf
Good luck. Grab a chain and go for it! I was nervous, but after reading a lot of information here, with the wealth of knowledge and support by the members, I gave it a shot. My first one turned out very good. It can only get better with time and experience.
I never gave much thought to the 'reason why' and I won't pretend to know why.
But i will say this - I've always found that a brand new chain, or a machine sharpened chain, will always cut BETTER after I've hand filed it.
When I install a new chain, I normally only run it about 10 or 15 minutes, just long enough to get some of that first initial stretch out of it.
I then stop, snug the chain up, and give it a light hand filing, just enough to get rid of that 'factory' grind, and also a very light stroke of the rakers with a flat file to make it 'want' to cut ... and then CUT it will. Just keeps getting better from that point on.
Skeans
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I don’t hardly deal with round grind chains but on square right out of the box or off the reel the angles are less aggressive, the rakers are high. First thing I’ll do with a new chain is drop the rakers it’ll cut so so, but after the first grind or two they start to come alive pick up speed and require no pressure the saw will do all the work so I can watch my sights when falling timber or watching the top when in the back cut.
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Very well said. I am one of those long time file holders, but also very able to run a grinder. My 2 cents says that there are pros and cons with every application. If you set up a grinder well and use a good blade or stone the cutters will all be very close to the same. That is a good thing, but the cutting edge will be a little ragged. Also the rakers can be made to be very precise more so than with a hand file job. The bad part is that grinding takes off a great deal of material that does not need to be taken. Most hand filed jobs can be done in about the same time as it takes to swap chains. If you become a little skilled you can make chips fly that many will have to take notice. A hand filed treatment to a chain will literally be be razor sharp that a grinder will have a difficult time to duplicate. It seems that many really enjoy setting up their grinder to make a very functional chain and then there are those that enjoy life a little more simple. The ultimate sharp chain comes from a skilled filer. Thanks
Welcome to A.S. Doug!
First define what 'better' means to you. Some edges will cut faster, but not last as long. Some are better for hardwoods; some for softwoods. Etc.
From what I understand, most chain cutters are factory sharpened before the chain is assembled. Certainly before they are shipped. It is not possible for them to put on as fine an edge as some people want and have it survive all that handling. For others, the factory edges are perfectly acceptable.
This is similar to quality woodworking tools which need to be honed before use for best performance.
Secondly, you have the issue of default factory angles, which are set for general use. One advantage of sharpening your own chains is the ability to optimize those angles for your needs and preferences.
As far as new versus used chains, a few things happen. One is an increase in the space between the front of the top plate edge and the depth gauge: more space means a change in the angle that the top plate cutting edge contacts the wood, and more room to clear chips.
While it might seem trivial, worn cutters also weigh less: chainsaw racers go to extreme lengths to remove every gram from their race chains to gain an advantage, similar to bicycle racers.
Lots of threads, ideas, information, and opinions on sharpening in this forum. Read through a few of those to get started.
Philbert
First define what 'better' means to you. Some edges will cut faster, but not last as long. Some are better for hardwoods; some for softwoods. Etc.
From what I understand, most chain cutters are factory sharpened before the chain is assembled. Certainly before they are shipped. It is not possible for them to put on as fine an edge as some people want and have it survive all that handling. For others, the factory edges are perfectly acceptable.
This is similar to quality woodworking tools which need to be honed before use for best performance.
Secondly, you have the issue of default factory angles, which are set for general use. One advantage of sharpening your own chains is the ability to optimize those angles for your needs and preferences.
As far as new versus used chains, a few things happen. One is an increase in the space between the front of the top plate edge and the depth gauge: more space means a change in the angle that the top plate cutting edge contacts the wood, and more room to clear chips.
While it might seem trivial, worn cutters also weigh less: chainsaw racers go to extreme lengths to remove every gram from their race chains to gain an advantage, similar to bicycle racers.
Lots of threads, ideas, information, and opinions on sharpening in this forum. Read through a few of those to get started.
Philbert
(The bad part is that grinding takes off a great deal of material that does not need to be taken)
Not true, a grinder takes off as much material as you set it too take off. Over here I barely touch the tooth unless rocked out. Steve
Not true, a grinder takes off as much material as you set it too take off. Over here I barely touch the tooth unless rocked out. Steve
vortec325
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After hand filing the gullet is significantly larger . I’m no expert by any means but to me that means it will take more of a “bite” . I know after a filing or two it cuts a good deal better than out of the box. As far as having a edge that’s more durable than another I’m not sure about due to the most of my cutting is blocking up after the wood makes it to the yard coverd in mud and dirt . It’s nothing for a brand new chain to last only 20 mins before it needs to be sharpened
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hedge hog
ArboristSite Guru
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Hand filing can be likened to high performance tuning of an engine, the little tweeks that a hand filer learns over a lifetime makes a new factory chain look like a standard 4 cylinder carbed engine compared to a computer chipped injected one.
Huskitoter
ArboristSite Operative
That may vary a good bit. I wouldn't expect a value chain to cut as well as a premium chain otb. Fwiw, I wouldn't touch a super 20 or txl before using either.
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The cutters are machined exactly the same, before assembly. Hacking away at it with a file guided by hand or with a jig is NOT going to yield anything close to exact. Certainly there are the god-like perfectionist here, that claim to be able to improve on the factory, but for mortals like myself, ~90% of factory after hand sharpening or with a bench mounted grinder, is damn good.
For knives I tend to use disposable utility blades or for food a steel rod like tool or similar rod that is ceramic. For plane blades and chisels (wood type) I have a few coarsenesses of stones generally used with oil and then leather strop. The chain cutter is quite different there is a layer of hard chrome that the actual edge is in. Generally speaking an edge, a really sharp one will dull with time for thermodynamic reasons. The saw chains I get are easy to get cut on so I doubt this really applies to the issue here but really that is about all I can offer that is new.
I generally do not tamper with a new chain until it is somewhat duller than the point I sharpen after I start sharpening it.
I generally do not tamper with a new chain until it is somewhat duller than the point I sharpen after I start sharpening it.
I posed a related question many years ago: 'would it help to hone the cutting edges of chains, or would serrated edges make a difference'?
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/why-not-serrated-chains.108951/
A key differences appears to be that knives (and similar edges) are used in a slicing / sliding motion, whereas the beveled edges of chain cutters start in a chopping / impact motion, then are pulled through the wood. There may be some sideways movement of the material as it is being cut, but the edges would be better compared to a chisel than a knife, or even to a conventional saw.
Good philosophy!
Philbert
It sounds like you need to up your game.
Cutters are most likened to a wood chisel or plane blade, sharpened on one side only, single bevel, but there are many tricks one can do to a chainsaw cutter to up its performance if the type of wood is known. The wood is very different when it is frozen or thawed so the cutters can be adjusted for that as well.
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My game is fine.
I took the OPs question to be about general sharpening. That is bringing a chain back from dull to as close to like new as possible. If he/she was asking about optimum cutting in a professional saw logging competition, then that is a whole different question.
Amen brother!
Couldn’t have said it any better myself!
Those who tout ‘their new chains’ and ‘their machine ground chains’ as precision works of art and superior to a properly hand filed chain, simply never learned to file .... and don’t know what they’re missing.
My advice to anyone starting out:
Don’t be afraid to free yourself from those gadgets and machines.
Grab a good file and go to work. Practice makes perfect.
vortec325
ArboristSite Operative
I would like to know the different ways to sharpen for a soft vs hard wood .
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